9/7/12

Everyone says that nyu stern is great for finance, due to its strong faculty and NYC location. But when i look at the actual job placement, i was surprised at how bad it was. Even with BB banking and trading, which is their bread and butter, they didn't place that well. And of course, buyside firms don't even look at NYU Stern students. The location is good in terms of pure convenience, but what good is it when you are losing out to wharton/columbia/booth students who are much more desired in the marketplace?

So is Stern MBA terribly overrated? Is it just coasting on its location rather than actual substance?

Comments (108)

9/6/12

As a recent alum (of the part time program) I can easily tell you that you would be better off at the schools you mentioned. I doubt you would get much debate here on that point.

Although Im curious where you got your placement statistics? Stern is a very large program overall. You have full timers who get on-campus recruiting services where all types of firms visit. And to fully utilize the campus facilities they throw in part-timers like me at night and on weekends. We have no access to on campus recruiting unless we go through a year long program which consists of extra time spent at Stern working through cases, interview techniques and resume scrubbing.

Even that part-time OCR isn't the same as the full-time OCR. Different companies show up and in recent history the firms have been lacking, with some canceling at the last minute due to the economy (and my guess is that they got their fill from other programs).

I think that's the info you wanted. To ask whether the school is overrated is very subjective as it isn't M7 and I personally have never seen it listed higher than 12 or so in the country.

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9/6/12
NYU:

As a recent alum (of the part time program) I can easily tell you that you would be better off at the schools you mentioned. I doubt you would get much debate here on that point.

Although Im curious where you got your placement statistics? Stern is a very large program overall. You have full timers who get on-campus recruiting services where all types of firms visit. And to fully utilize the campus facilities they throw in part-timers like me at night and on weekends. We have no access to on campus recruiting unless we go through a year long program which consists of extra time spent at Stern working through cases, interview techniques and resume scrubbing.

Even that part-time OCR isn't the same as the full-time OCR. Different companies show up and in recent history the firms have been lacking, with some canceling at the last minute due to the economy (and my guess is that they got their fill from other programs).

I think that's the info you wanted. To ask whether the school is overrated is very subjective as it isn't M7 and I personally have never seen it listed higher than 12 or so in the country.

Thanks for the honest feedback. Obviously wharton/booth/columbia is ideal since i can pretty much get any finance job i want coming out of there. At stern i probably will have to fight like a caveman to just get interviews at top firms. Not sure if it's worth the price tage if that's the best school i get into. It does piss me off that lower ranked schools like stern charge the same price tag as higher ranked programs even though they offer fundamentally different value propositions. A columbia alum will get vastly better opportunities than a stern alum, even in NYC finance. But that's a different topic altogether.

9/6/12

Brady are you already giving up on your M7 dreams?! How will you smash vag and fly to Bora Bora and shit?

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

9/6/12

WSO really hates Stern I see.

Here to learn and hopefully pass on some knowledge as well. SB if I helped.

9/6/12

I'm curious what you mean by you were surprised at how bad the placement was...

Looking at NYU's employment report they sent:
18% to Investment Banking - mean base salary: $104k, bonus:$42.5K
5% to Sales and Trading - mean base salary: $100k, bonus:$39.9K

Looking at Booth:
19% to Investment Banking - medain base salary (my numbers don't have mean): $100k, bonus: $40k
3.2% to sales and trading - median base salary: $100K, bonus:$42.5

As you can see it's really not that different between the two schools. There is some self-selection probably clouding these numbers. I would venture more Stern MBAs are targeting Finance than Booth MBAs, based on my experience, even given the Finance power-house that Booth is. But still, no huge meaningful difference in the numbers.
Links:
Stern:http://stern.nyu.edu/portal-partners/recruiter... http://chicagobooth.edu/employmentreport/funct...

9/6/12

Another thing about Stern is that the brand is a bit diluted because they admit so many students. There are ~700 full timers I want to say, while there are ~3000 part-timers. When I first arrived I thought I'd be overwhelmed by the experience and intelligence of students in the program. This isn't a humble brag or anything but I encountered more people than I care to admit who weren't all that bright. More often than not I encountered lazy part-timers who wanted to coast through and get their diploma without really learning or applying themselves if they didnt have to because "they have a full time job to worry about also".

Stern is a school but it's also a business looking to turn a profit. So when they admit students, particularly to the part-time program, they are looking at a students' credit risk in addition to other scholastic metrics like GMAT etc. So when I check the box that states my IB is reimbursing my tuition, I become a much more attractive candidate. Of course you need to get a grade above a C to get reimbursed and Stern knows this, so you have to be the laziest son of a bitch in the tri-state area to get below a B.

Sadly, this waters down the class and I wound up in Stats class with people from FIT who worked in merchandising that had never heard the word permutation before simply because their company was sponsoring them. Some people flat out stated that they couldn't get promoted without a degree and their company was willing to pay for Stern, so here they were staring at their iphone 6 hours a week and contributing nothing.

I'm coming down harshly on Stern and I don't mean to, however I can surely understand how an alum could come off less than stellar in an interview or networking event thanks to the more liberal admissions policy versus a school like CBS which has a small exec program in addition to a FT one where each candidate has been interviewed and vetted more thoroughly.

9/6/12
NYU:

Stern is a school but it's also a business looking to turn a profit. So when they admit students, particularly to the part-time program, they are looking at a students' credit risk in addition to other scholastic metrics like GMAT etc. So when I check the box that states my IB is reimbursing my tuition, I become a much more attractive candidate. Of course you need to get a grade above a C to get reimbursed and Stern knows this, so you have to be the laziest son of a bitch in the tri-state area to get below a B. .

This is false and needs to be corrected. Business schools are both a) not-for-profit institutions, and (more importantly) b) not in the business of lending money.

When you get admitted it is up to you and your creditors (the Federal Government and banks/finance companies) to come up with the cash to pay tuition. Schools don't lend any significant amount of money (certain Stafford loans topped at 8K come directly from the school, but are backed by the full faith and credit of the US Government). Basically - no admitted student is a credit risk to business schools, only to their creditors.

There is another reason NYU or other schools MAY favor sponsored students (though not saying they do). Sponsored students have essentially guaranteed job placement after graduation, which can certainly help metrics which contribute to rankings.

9/6/12
Boothorbust:

This is false and needs to be corrected. Business schools are both a) not-for-profit institutions, and (more importantly) b) not in the business of lending money.

When you get admitted it is up to you and your creditors (the Federal Government and banks/finance companies) to come up with the cash to pay tuition. Schools don't lend any significant amount of money (certain Stafford loans topped at 8K come directly from the school, but are backed by the full faith and credit of the US Government). Basically - no admitted student is a credit risk to business schools, only to their creditors.

There is another reason NYU or other schools MAY favor sponsored students (though not saying they do). Sponsored students have essentially guaranteed job placement after graduation, which can certainly help metrics which contribute to rankings.

Fair enough. I worded that poorly. The school doesn't look to turn a profit, however that does not mean they are not in the business of making money. There are only so many seats in the program. So when a student is granted a seat, but after a few semesters they decide not to continue with the program, the school loses out. They negate this by weighing admissions in favor of those students who are less likely to drop out over time. This is done by granting very few grades below B and choosing students who are reimbursed by their firms (so as to negate the whole 'is this worth the $ question'). This is what I meant by assessing credit risk. They are looking for those students who will hand over the entire $100k over the course of 3 years.

10/15/13

Hey man. I appreciate your honesty and thorough comments about NYU. Since NYU Part-time has virtually no access to recruiting, then wouldn't it be better off then to go for the CFA and networking one's ass off in order to break into IB or S&T? I mean, with the part-time MBA it sounds like one would have to do the same thing anyways but at a much higher price tag. Whats the real value then in the Stern part-time MBA besides bragging rights?

10/15/13

If someone else will foot the bill, then I'd say you should go only because Stern has a better network than the CFA in IBD and S&T.
If they arent footing the bill and you are then I'd say network through your undergrad and do the CFA if you're passionate about it But to be honest, I do not see anybody in IBD who has a CFA. But there are tons of threads here that speak to that.

9/6/12

I did not go to stern but have a bunch of friends who did their full-time mba there and are now in finance. This is what I've gathered from talking to them about their thoughts on stern.

  1. The caliber of students at Stern FT is significantly lower than wharton/booth/columbia. Even my friends there admitted this, and when they would show up for interviews, they felt that they were being held to a higher standard since finance recruiters did not take them as seriously as the other programs. This could be a blessing however; if you are smart and work your butt off you could be the big fish in the small pond. I imagine that the caliber of Stern PT students is even lower than FT, but NYU covered this pretty well in the post above. As my Stern friend said, the difference between the average sternie and average whartonite or columbian is equivalent to the gap between a harvard undergrad and a michigan undergrad. In other words, the difference is gigantic, and recruiters clearly know this.
  2. Stern does reasonably well in sellside banking but that's it. S&T is intensely cutthroat, and buyside recruiting is nonexistent. My good buddy works at a top BB now but desperately wanted investment management or long-short equity hedge fund. He literally had little social life for 2 years-spent his time networking his butt off but had a hard time even getting interviews because he goes to stern, rather than HBS/wharton/booth/columbia. He ended up getting a good sellside job but is pretty bitter about his overall experience at Stern and does not think it was worth it.
  3. However, if Stern is the best school you get into, and you want to work in NYC finance, I suppose you should go unless you get a better opportunity on the job front. Just be very well aware what you're getting into though before going to stern. The location is glitzy, so that luster draws people in.
9/6/12

NYU was ranked #3 for best Finance Schools by US News & World Report...does this not matter anymore?

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/...

9/6/12
John_McClane:

NYU was ranked #3 for best Finance Schools by US News & World Report...does this not matter anymore?

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/...

That ranking probably has more to do with faculty quality and academics rather than job placement, which is what MBA students care about ultimately. Stern is certainly not bad for finance, but my friends who went there had a tough time getting good jobs because they had to compete against students from hbs/wharton/booth/columbia. And recruiters certainly treated them differently. It's certainly not fair, but in finance there is a very large line of demarcation between the M7 and the rest.

9/6/12
Arbitrage1980:
John_McClane:

NYU was ranked #3 for best Finance Schools by US News & World Report...does this not matter anymore?

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/...

That ranking probably has more to do with faculty quality and academics rather than job placement, which is what MBA students care about ultimately. Stern is certainly not bad for finance, but my friends who went there had a tough time getting good jobs because they had to compete against students from hbs/wharton/booth/columbia. And recruiters certainly treated them differently. It's certainly not fair, but in finance there is a very large line of demarcation between the M7 and the rest.

Interesting. So for finance recruiting, Sloan / Kellogg > Stern? I find that puzzling, considering that those schools are located further from NYC than Stern is. Especially puzzling for Kellogg, since it is in Chicago and is considered a marketing school.

9/6/12
John_McClane:
Arbitrage1980:
John_McClane:

NYU was ranked #3 for best Finance Schools by US News & World Report...does this not matter anymore?

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/...

That ranking probably has more to do with faculty quality and academics rather than job placement, which is what MBA students care about ultimately. Stern is certainly not bad for finance, but my friends who went there had a tough time getting good jobs because they had to compete against students from hbs/wharton/booth/columbia. And recruiters certainly treated them differently. It's certainly not fair, but in finance there is a very large line of demarcation between the M7 and the rest.

Interesting. So for finance recruiting, Sloan / Kellogg > Stern? I find that puzzling, considering that those schools are located further from NYC than Stern is. Especially puzzling for Kellogg, since it is in Chicago and is considered a marketing school.

Absolutely. Yes, Kellogg is not finance-centric, but it's still a part of the M7, more prestigious and more coveted than Stern. The top east coast buyside firms will fly out to chicago to aggressively recruit at booth but will NOT go down the street to stern. Why is that? It's because M7 students are on a whole different level from stern students. And recruiters want them badly. As I said in the earlier post my stern friends had a very rough time and were unhappy during their time there. When I visited Stern I was struck at how depressed a lot of the students were about their job prospects. Total opposite of columbia/wharton/booth/hbs.

9/9/12
Arbitrage1980:
John_McClane:
Arbitrage1980:
John_McClane:

NYU was ranked #3 for best Finance Schools by US News & World Report...does this not matter anymore?

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/...

That ranking probably has more to do with faculty quality and academics rather than job placement, which is what MBA students care about ultimately. Stern is certainly not bad for finance, but my friends who went there had a tough time getting good jobs because they had to compete against students from hbs/wharton/booth/columbia. And recruiters certainly treated them differently. It's certainly not fair, but in finance there is a very large line of demarcation between the M7 and the rest.

Interesting. So for finance recruiting, Sloan / Kellogg > Stern? I find that puzzling, considering that those schools are located further from NYC than Stern is. Especially puzzling for Kellogg, since it is in Chicago and is considered a marketing school.

Absolutely. Yes, Kellogg is not finance-centric, but it's still a part of the M7, more prestigious and more coveted than Stern. The top east coast buyside firms will fly out to chicago to aggressively recruit at booth but will NOT go down the street to stern. Why is that? It's because M7 students are on a whole different level from stern students. And recruiters want them badly. As I said in the earlier post my stern friends had a very rough time and were unhappy during their time there. When I visited Stern I was struck at how depressed a lot of the students were about their job prospects. Total opposite of columbia/wharton/booth/hbs.

Kellogg places 6% of its alumni in investment banking. Stern places a higher % than that on the buyside. Recruiters don't give a fuck about "prestige" or M7 (which is a made up term by wannabe MBAs on internet forums). They care about where they can find a lot of qualified applicants without blowing their recruiting budgets. They are not flying around the country having wet dreams about "M7".

Now you've said that you visited Stern- something you would do only if you were seeking admission, and you're taking shit about them, something you would not be doing if you got in, so it's pretty clear what your motives are.

I am wise because I know that I know nothing -Socrates

9/10/12
ThunderRoad:
Arbitrage1980:
John_McClane:
Arbitrage1980:
John_McClane:

NYU was ranked #3 for best Finance Schools by US News & World Report...does this not matter anymore?

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/...

That ranking probably has more to do with faculty quality and academics rather than job placement, which is what MBA students care about ultimately. Stern is certainly not bad for finance, but my friends who went there had a tough time getting good jobs because they had to compete against students from hbs/wharton/booth/columbia. And recruiters certainly treated them differently. It's certainly not fair, but in finance there is a very large line of demarcation between the M7 and the rest.

Interesting. So for finance recruiting, Sloan / Kellogg > Stern? I find that puzzling, considering that those schools are located further from NYC than Stern is. Especially puzzling for Kellogg, since it is in Chicago and is considered a marketing school.

Absolutely. Yes, Kellogg is not finance-centric, but it's still a part of the M7, more prestigious and more coveted than Stern. The top east coast buyside firms will fly out to chicago to aggressively recruit at booth but will NOT go down the street to stern. Why is that? It's because M7 students are on a whole different level from stern students. And recruiters want them badly. As I said in the earlier post my stern friends had a very rough time and were unhappy during their time there. When I visited Stern I was struck at how depressed a lot of the students were about their job prospects. Total opposite of columbia/wharton/booth/hbs.

Kellogg places 6% of its alumni in investment banking. Stern places a higher % than that on the buyside. Recruiters don't give a fuck about "prestige" or M7 (which is a made up term by wannabe MBAs on internet forums). They care about where they can find a lot of qualified applicants without blowing their recruiting budgets. They are not flying around the country having wet dreams about "M7".

Now you've said that you visited Stern- something you would do only if you were seeking admission, and you're taking shit about them, something you would not be doing if you got in, so it's pretty clear what your motives are.

Based on the anger in this post, I'm going to assume that you're a stern student.

No, I never applied to stern, nor do i plan to do so. I visited to see my friends and met a bunch of their classmates as well. Your kellogg stat is right, but you're also forgetting the fact that a far smaller percentage of kellogg students are seeking banking jobs than stern students. Getting a good banking job coming out of kellogg is fairly easy while at stern it's hard because you're literally competing against like 80% of your class. And buyside is virtually impossible since there is no recruiting. You're right that an elite hedge fund like viking will only hire 1 or 2 from a top b-school. But columbia/booth/wharton students have access to a lot of good buyside firms through campus visits, informal chats, events, etc. My point is that at least at those schools you will have a chance to present yourself while at stern the doors are shut because top finance recruiters don't respect the stern name brand and its students.

9/10/12
Arbitrage1980:
ThunderRoad:
Arbitrage1980:
John_McClane:
Arbitrage1980:
John_McClane:

NYU was ranked #3 for best Finance Schools by US News & World Report...does this not matter anymore?

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/...

That ranking probably has more to do with faculty quality and academics rather than job placement, which is what MBA students care about ultimately. Stern is certainly not bad for finance, but my friends who went there had a tough time getting good jobs because they had to compete against students from hbs/wharton/booth/columbia. And recruiters certainly treated them differently. It's certainly not fair, but in finance there is a very large line of demarcation between the M7 and the rest.

Interesting. So for finance recruiting, Sloan / Kellogg > Stern? I find that puzzling, considering that those schools are located further from NYC than Stern is. Especially puzzling for Kellogg, since it is in Chicago and is considered a marketing school.

Absolutely. Yes, Kellogg is not finance-centric, but it's still a part of the M7, more prestigious and more coveted than Stern. The top east coast buyside firms will fly out to chicago to aggressively recruit at booth but will NOT go down the street to stern. Why is that? It's because M7 students are on a whole different level from stern students. And recruiters want them badly. As I said in the earlier post my stern friends had a very rough time and were unhappy during their time there. When I visited Stern I was struck at how depressed a lot of the students were about their job prospects. Total opposite of columbia/wharton/booth/hbs.

Kellogg places 6% of its alumni in investment banking. Stern places a higher % than that on the buyside. Recruiters don't give a fuck about "prestige" or M7 (which is a made up term by wannabe MBAs on internet forums). They care about where they can find a lot of qualified applicants without blowing their recruiting budgets. They are not flying around the country having wet dreams about "M7".

Now you've said that you visited Stern- something you would do only if you were seeking admission, and you're taking shit about them, something you would not be doing if you got in, so it's pretty clear what your motives are.

Based on the anger in this post, I'm going to assume that you're a stern student.

No, I never applied to stern, nor do i plan to do so. I visited to see my friends and met a bunch of their classmates as well. Your kellogg stat is right, but you're also forgetting the fact that a far smaller percentage of kellogg students are seeking banking jobs than stern students. Getting a good banking job coming out of kellogg is fairly easy while at stern it's hard because you're literally competing against like 80% of your class. And buyside is virtually impossible since there is no recruiting. You're right that an elite hedge fund like viking will only hire 1 or 2 from a top b-school. But columbia/booth/wharton students have access to a lot of good buyside firms through campus visits, informal chats, events, etc. My point is that at least at those schools you will have a chance to present yourself while at stern the doors are shut because top finance recruiters don't respect the stern name brand and its students.

I was admitted to both NYU and Columbia, and I have worked both buy and sell side, and I'm not giving an opinion. I'm telling you for a fact that you are wrong. You would do well to just admit when you don't know what you're talking about.

I am wise because I know that I know nothing -Socrates

9/6/12

Damn, how many avatars does Brady have?

9/6/12

My internship class was four people from Stern, three from Wharton, one HBS, one Cornell, five CBS, and me. Two years later, one Stern guy is still at original BB, one went to Morgan Stanley, one went to buyside, and one went to PIMCO (west coast baby!).

My stance is if you want IBD, Stern can deliver it to you on a silver platter. But you still have to kick ass at school.

In this economic environment, you're going to want to show A's, lots of involvement with clubs / etc, and basically be really focused on achievement. The guys who go to the bar don't get jobs unless they had prior IBD experience. (and in that case, why would you leave IBD to get MBA just to go back?!). I'd rather kill myself.

9/6/12

And if you don't want IBD? I'm in AM and want to go to HF. I'm assuming I shouldn't even apply to Stern then...

(Why are you talking about A's? Stern has a grade non-disclosure policy)

9/7/12
John_McClane:

And if you don't want IBD? I'm in AM and want to go to HF. I'm assuming I shouldn't even apply to Stern then...

(Why are you talking about A's? Stern has a grade non-disclosure policy)

For buyside, stern will be a complete waste of time and money. My friends wanted buyside too but ended up totally striking out. When they don't visit campus to recruit, you have to chase them yourself. And they had a hard time even getting interviews because they weren't at the right school.

9/7/12
John_McClane:

And if you don't want IBD? I'm in AM and want to go to HF. I'm assuming I shouldn't even apply to Stern then...

(Why are you talking about A's? Stern has a grade non-disclosure policy)

He means for the part-timers. Many part-timers are sponsored by their employers; these employers usually have some sort of "we'll only pay for grades of B- and up" policy.

9/7/12
holla_back:
John_McClane:

And if you don't want IBD? I'm in AM and want to go to HF. I'm assuming I shouldn't even apply to Stern then...

(Why are you talking about A's? Stern has a grade non-disclosure policy)

He means for the part-timers. Many part-timers are sponsored by their employers; these employers usually have some sort of "we'll only pay for grades of B- and up" policy.

Pretty sure that's not what he meant.

He states: "In this economic environment, you're going to want to show A's, lots of involvement with clubs / etc, and basically be really focused on achievement". Why would employers care about clubs / achievement?

In addition, earlier in his post he talked about Stern students he interned with. Obviously he's not talking about part-timers, since part-time Stern students do not complete internships.

Furthermore, many employers only pay for grades B- and up, so he would be talking about B's, not A's.

9/7/12
John_McClane:
holla_back:
John_McClane:

And if you don't want IBD? I'm in AM and want to go to HF. I'm assuming I shouldn't even apply to Stern then...

(Why are you talking about A's? Stern has a grade non-disclosure policy)

He means for the part-timers. Many part-timers are sponsored by their employers; these employers usually have some sort of "we'll only pay for grades of B- and up" policy.

Pretty sure that's not what he meant.

He states: "In this economic environment, you're going to want to show A's, lots of involvement with clubs / etc, and basically be really focused on achievement". Why would employers care about clubs / achievement?

In addition, earlier in his post he talked about Stern students he interned with. Obviously he's not talking about part-timers, since part-time Stern students do not complete internships.

Furthermore, many employers only pay for grades B- and up, so he would be talking about B's, not A's.

I thought you were referring back to an earlier post in this thread (when the part-time program was discussed). My bad.

9/7/12

How is chicago and columbia for buyside? Are they really THAT much better than NYU for AM/HF/MF

9/7/12
camspin:

How is chicago and columbia for buyside? Are they really THAT much better than NYU for AM/HF/MF

Yes, Booth/Columbia are very strong in IM/HF. The contrast to stern is stark. The major mutual funds, a lot of hedge fund, actively come visit booth/columbia to recruit students. Basically if you want buyside from one of those schools and willing to do the work, you will get it. At stern you just don't have access. If your plan for doing an mba is to get into buyside, do not go to stern. You will be extremely disappointed. Stern is a depressing place-lot of finance guys have high hopes, but their expectations are not met.

9/7/12
Arbitrage1980:
camspin:

How is chicago and columbia for buyside? Are they really THAT much better than NYU for AM/HF/MF

Yes, Booth/Columbia are very strong in IM/HF. The contrast to stern is stark. The major mutual funds, a lot of hedge fund, actively come visit booth/columbia to recruit students. Basically if you want buyside from one of those schools and willing to do the work, you will get it. At stern you just don't have access. If your plan for doing an mba is to get into buyside, do not go to stern. You will be extremely disappointed. Stern is a depressing place-lot of finance guys have high hopes, but their expectations are not met.

Let's take a look at the employment reports (by industry):

Stern: 4% Graduates in IM/HF
Booth: 7.4%
CBS: 12.2%

There appears to be some truth in your statement, but I'm not sure it's as drastic as you make it seem...

Stern has a class size of ~780, so that would mean ~30 or so graduates in IM/HF.

Also, Kellogg placed about 2% of Graduates in IM, so I'm not sure your M7 > Stern statement holds water.

9/15/12

Stern's class size is small. There are less than 400 people per class. The total FT program is ~780, not one class.

9/15/12
ReluctantMBA:

Stern's class size is small. There are less than 400 people per class. The total FT program is ~780, not one class.

Ok. What's your point? The smaller class size doesn't take away from the fact that a very high % of stern students are competing for the same jobs in finance. At least at booth/columbia/wharton, you have a lot of people doing consulting, entrepreneurship, marketing, tech, etc. Stern is very weak in job placement except in sellside banking. And even there they have to compete with the columbia kids from uptown. Stern is just not a fun school because you end up having to bust your butt off just to get interviews and be taken seriously.

9/15/12
Arbitrage1980:
ReluctantMBA:

Stern's class size is small. There are less than 400 people per class. The total FT program is ~780, not one class.

Ok. What's your point? The smaller class size doesn't take away from the fact that a very high % of stern students are competing for the same jobs in finance. At least at booth/columbia/wharton, you have a lot of people doing consulting, entrepreneurship, marketing, tech, etc. Stern is very weak in job placement except in sellside banking. And even there they have to compete with the columbia kids from uptown. Stern is just not a fun school because you end up having to bust your butt off just to get interviews and be taken seriously.

The post I was replying to didn't quote above mine. Someone had said that Stern's class size was @ 780. I was simply correcting that statement.

I have friends who are current students and alums of both the FT and PT programs at Stern. Their experiences and feelings about Stern do not match your assertions. But I have no skin in this game since I chose not to apply to Stern and matriculated elsewhere. The only thing I will say about placement numbers is that they do not depict career changes and are heavily weighted by selection bias. If you don't feel comfortable that Stern can be a launch pad to the jobs you want then do not apply (you in general, not you specifically). No need to denigrate the school though.

9/15/12
ReluctantMBA:
Arbitrage1980:
ReluctantMBA:

Stern's class size is small. There are less than 400 people per class. The total FT program is ~780, not one class.

Ok. What's your point? The smaller class size doesn't take away from the fact that a very high % of stern students are competing for the same jobs in finance. At least at booth/columbia/wharton, you have a lot of people doing consulting, entrepreneurship, marketing, tech, etc. Stern is very weak in job placement except in sellside banking. And even there they have to compete with the columbia kids from uptown. Stern is just not a fun school because you end up having to bust your butt off just to get interviews and be taken seriously.

The post I was replying to didn't quote above mine. Someone had said that Stern's class size was @ 780. I was simply correcting that statement.

I have friends who are current students and alums of both the FT and PT programs at Stern. Their experiences and feelings about Stern do not match your assertions. But I have no skin in this game since I chose not to apply to Stern and matriculated elsewhere. The only thing I will say about placement numbers is that they do not depict career changes and are heavily weighted by selection bias. If you don't feel comfortable that Stern can be a launch pad to the jobs you want then do not apply (you in general, not you specifically). No need to denigrate the school though.

I'm not denigrating Stern. I'm just pointing out important things to consider before one attends Stern. The school has done a masterful job of using its location and strong finance faculty to sell its MBA program, and a lot of people have bought it sink line and hooker.

First, the quality of the faculty is easily one of the least important factors to consider in a MBA program. I get really annoyed when admissions officers use this to sell their school. Now if someone were interested in doing a masters in financial math or Phd finance/econ at Stern, then yes, the faculty is an important factor. But for an MBA program, what matters is the name brand, reputation among firms, on-campus recruiting, and alumni network. Everything else is secondary in importance.

Second, regarding the location. Yes, attending school in the village is fun (expensive as hell too). And being in NYC makes it easier to visit companies and do interviews. But location is not exactly an advantage when there's another b-school uptown that is far more highly respected among recruiters. For buyside, which i think the op was asking about, the difference between wharton/booth/columbia and stern is enormous.

Stern could be the right choice if someone BADLY wants the NYC student experience and/or is dead set on sellside banking in NYC. But if one is interested in buyside or even MBB consulting, Stern is a poor choice, and they should look elsewhere.

9/9/12
Arbitrage1980:

Yes, Booth/Columbia are very strong in IM/HF. The contrast to stern is stark. The major mutual funds, a lot of hedge fund, actively come visit booth/columbia to recruit students. Basically if you want buyside from one of those schools and willing to do the work, you will get it. At stern you just don't have access. If your plan for doing an mba is to get into buyside, do not go to stern. You will be extremely disappointed. Stern is a depressing place-lot of finance guys have high hopes, but their expectations are not met.

You don't know what you're talking about. I doubt that you have any experience at all with MBA recruiting and I have good reasons:

  1. If you knew anything about buyside recruiting, particularly hedge fund recruiting, you would know that even at Columbia, virtually all of it happens off campus. I was admitted to Columbia and spoke to plenty of people who wen through the recruiting process: Viking recruits one kid a year at Columbia and in a given year a couple of hedge funds with needs might come to campus, but there is no real "pipeline".
  2. The % of graduates on the buyside reflects the % of students with previous buyside experience. Columbia is somewhat higher here, and by that criterion you might call it a better school, but it doesn't convert non-buyside people to the buyside at a higher rate than anyone else.
  3. Most people who want to get buyside jobs will fail at every school. In fact, rather than waiting until spring to recruit for hedge funds, most people will simply self-select into sell side rather than risk graduating without a job.

In response to the OP, you can't possibly know Stern's placement at BBs, because they don't disclose that information. The only public info is a handful of "representative employers" by industry. This whole thread just appears to be a hit piece on Stern. Disgruntled rejects?

I am wise because I know that I know nothing -Socrates

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9/7/12

Off-Topic, which school is harder for admissions:

Booth vs Kellogg

Just something I've been wondering.

Here to learn and hopefully pass on some knowledge as well. SB if I helped.

9/7/12
That_Aston:

Off-Topic, which school is harder for admissions:

Booth vs Kellogg

Just something I've been wondering.

This is hard to say. Both schools acceptance rate range around 20% (see table: http://poetsandquants.com/2012/07/16/mba-consultin...)so the easy answer is "equally hard (or easy depending on your POV)".

I know a number of people at each school who were rejected from the other. It all depends on the class they are building, how many applicants are similar or different from you, the class the adcomm is trying to build etc.

9/7/12
Boothorbust:
That_Aston:

Off-Topic, which school is harder for admissions:

Booth vs Kellogg

Just something I've been wondering.

This is hard to say. Both schools acceptance rate range around 20% (see table: http://poetsandquants.com/2012/07/16/mba-consultin...)so the easy answer is "equally hard (or easy depending on your POV)".

I know a number of people at each school who were rejected from the other. It all depends on the class they are building, how many applicants are similar or different from you, the class the adcomm is trying to build etc.

I assume you go to Booth...any insight on how open they are to applications from non-target Undergrad?

Here to learn and hopefully pass on some knowledge as well. SB if I helped.

9/7/12

It looks like the Stern MBA is considered about average, and delivers average/slightly above average results. So I'd say it's not overrated.

9/8/12

i think its more about who u r

9/8/12
Derivatives:

Everyone says that nyu stern is great for finance, due to its strong faculty and NYC location. But when i look at the actual job placement, i was surprised at how bad it was. Even with BB banking and trading, which is their bread and butter, they didn't place that well. And of course, buyside firms don't even look at NYU Stern students. The location is good in terms of pure convenience, but what good is it when you are losing out to wharton/columbia/booth students who are much more desired in the marketplace?

So is Stern MBA terribly overrated? Is it just coasting on its location rather than actual substance?

Do you have a grudge against Stern or something? What facts do you have to back your statement up. You posted this topic two times already. Quit trolling around.

//freeminimalist.ru/forums/are-stern-mbas-look...

9/8/12
Irresistible:
Derivatives:

Everyone says that nyu stern is great for finance, due to its strong faculty and NYC location. But when i look at the actual job placement, i was surprised at how bad it was. Even with BB banking and trading, which is their bread and butter, they didn't place that well. And of course, buyside firms don't even look at NYU Stern students. The location is good in terms of pure convenience, but what good is it when you are losing out to wharton/columbia/booth students who are much more desired in the marketplace?

So is Stern MBA terribly overrated? Is it just coasting on its location rather than actual substance?

Do you have a grudge against Stern or something? What facts do you have to back your statement up. You posted this topic two times already. Quit trolling around.

//freeminimalist.ru/forums/are-stern-mbas-look...

yeah, what is the purpose of your post Derivatives? What is your motive behind this? Stern is known to be a top MBA school. Your personal rant about the school on WSO won't necessarily change any of that.

9/9/12
Derivatives:

Everyone says that nyu stern is great for finance, due to its strong faculty and NYC location. But when i look at the actual job placement, i was surprised at how bad it was. Even with BB banking and trading, which is their bread and butter, they didn't place that well. And of course, buyside firms don't even look at NYU Stern students. The location is good in terms of pure convenience, but what good is it when you are losing out to wharton/columbia/booth students who are much more desired in the marketplace?

So is Stern MBA terribly overrated? Is it just coasting on its location rather than actual substance?

I agree with you Derivatives. The best bet is going to Harvard business school though, with Wharton, Booth (at UChicago), and Columbia Business School also good.

9/10/12

http://chicagobooth.edu/employmentreport/docs/...
http://www7.gsb.columbia.edu/recruiters/employment...
Class of 2011
Booth: 4.4% Private Equity, 8.2% Investment Management/Research, 19% Investment Banking (588 students)
Columbia: 4.9% Private Equity/VC, 14.7% IM/Research, 18.8% IB (745 students)
Stern: 2% Private Equity, 7% IM/Research, 18% Banking (~390 or so - couldn't find exact number)

I'll leave it up to you to decide if that's a big discrepancy. From what I've heard, neither Stern nor Columbia have great reputations of being great paths to the buyside.

Disclosure: I'm a Stern undergrad alum.

Edit: just noticed I compared Booth's function statistics with industry statistics for CSB and Stern. Updated stats above for functions.

9/10/12
hiit:

http://chicagobooth.edu/employmentreport/docs/...
http://www7.gsb.columbia.edu/recruiters/employment...
Class of 2011
Booth: 4.4% Private Equity, 8.2% Investment Management/Research, 19% Investment Banking (588 students)
Columbia: 4.9% Private Equity/VC, 14.7% IM/Research, 18.8% IB (745 students)
Stern: 2% Private Equity, 7% IM/Research, 18% Banking (~390 or so - couldn't find exact number)

I'll leave it up to you to decide if that's a big discrepancy. From what I've heard, neither Stern nor Columbia have great reputations of being great paths to the buyside.

Disclosure: I'm a Stern undergrad alum.

Edit: just noticed I compared Booth's function statistics with industry statistics for CSB and Stern. Updated stats above for functions.

Not too surprising. Stern does well in banking but gets crushed in buyside. Columbia's 14.7% stat for IM is incredible. So about 110 students out of roughly 750 got IM while at stern only around 28 out of 400 students got IM. That's an enormous difference and highlights my earlier point that for IM/HF, it's M7 or bust.

9/10/12
Arbitrage1980:
hiit:

http://chicagobooth.edu/employmentreport/docs/...
http://www7.gsb.columbia.edu/recruiters/employment...
Class of 2011
Booth: 4.4% Private Equity, 8.2% Investment Management/Research, 19% Investment Banking (588 students)
Columbia: 4.9% Private Equity/VC, 14.7% IM/Research, 18.8% IB (745 students)
Stern: 2% Private Equity, 7% IM/Research, 18% Banking (~390 or so - couldn't find exact number)

I'll leave it up to you to decide if that's a big discrepancy. From what I've heard, neither Stern nor Columbia have great reputations of being great paths to the buyside.

Disclosure: I'm a Stern undergrad alum.

Edit: just noticed I compared Booth's function statistics with industry statistics for CSB and Stern. Updated stats above for functions.

Not too surprising. Stern does well in banking but gets crushed in buyside. Columbia's 14.7% stat for IM is incredible. So about 110 students out of roughly 750 got IM while at stern only around 28 out of 400 students got IM. That's an enormous difference and highlights my earlier point that for IM/HF, it's M7 or bust.

Nearly 1 in 10 going to the buyside is "getting crushed" "shutout from the buyside", etc? You are a troll. Last comment I'm making.

I am wise because I know that I know nothing -Socrates

9/10/12
Arbitrage1980:
hiit:

http://chicagobooth.edu/employmentreport/docs/...
http://www7.gsb.columbia.edu/recruiters/employment...
Class of 2011
Booth: 4.4% Private Equity, 8.2% Investment Management/Research, 19% Investment Banking (588 students)
Columbia: 4.9% Private Equity/VC, 14.7% IM/Research, 18.8% IB (745 students)
Stern: 2% Private Equity, 7% IM/Research, 18% Banking (~390 or so - couldn't find exact number)

I'll leave it up to you to decide if that's a big discrepancy. From what I've heard, neither Stern nor Columbia have great reputations of being great paths to the buyside.

Disclosure: I'm a Stern undergrad alum.

Edit: just noticed I compared Booth's function statistics with industry statistics for CSB and Stern. Updated stats above for functions.

Not too surprising. Stern does well in banking but gets crushed in buyside. Columbia's 14.7% stat for IM is incredible. So about 110 students out of roughly 750 got IM while at stern only around 28 out of 400 students got IM. That's an enormous difference and highlights my earlier point that for IM/HF, it's M7 or bust.

Not really, 3.6% is pure Investment Management. The remaining 11.1% of Research is not broken out by sell-side vs. buy-side.

9/12/12

Talked to a friend who's a wharton grad, now working at a european office of MBB consulting. He said that during various career treks and recruiting trips with other b-schools, the M7 students looked down on the Stern students and felt sorry for them. The view was that Stern students failed because they were unable to get into a M7 and were thus subpar in terms of credentials. They acted pretty humble, according to him, partly because they were insecure around those from better schools. He said that when it came down to it, the feeling was that stern students just weren't a part of the exclusive club, a sense that they just didn't belong with the big boys.

I found this rather disturbing, but this view seems to be quite pervasive. I most likely won't apply there since i don't want to drop mad cash to live in manhattan, struggle to just get buyside interviews, and on top of that, have M7 students look down on me. F*ck that.

9/12/12
Derivatives:

Talked to a friend who's a wharton grad, now working at a european office of MBB consulting. He said that during various career treks and recruiting trips with other b-schools, the M7 students looked down on the Stern students and felt sorry for them. The view was that Stern students failed because they were unable to get into a M7 and were thus subpar in terms of credentials. They acted pretty humble, according to him, partly because they were insecure around those from better schools. He said that when it came down to it, the feeling was that stern students just weren't a part of the exclusive club, a sense that they just didn't belong with the big boys.

I found this rather disturbing, but this view seems to be quite pervasive. I most likely won't apply there since i don't want to drop mad cash to live in manhattan, struggle to just get buyside interviews, and on top of that, have M7 students look down on me. F*ck that.

Your friend is a total tool. Unfortunately though, he is the typical M7 student; most of them are pretentious and obnoxious. If you care this much about prestige and how others view you, don't go to stern. You won't be happy there, and even if you get in, you should give the spot to someone who really wants to be there.

I do think that when stern students go on these joint career treks with M7 students, it's like being an ugly girl at a party full of models. They are bound to feel timid and insecure. Just the way it is.

9/12/12
Arbitrage1980:
Derivatives:

Talked to a friend who's a wharton grad, now working at a european office of MBB consulting. He said that during various career treks and recruiting trips with other b-schools, the M7 students looked down on the Stern students and felt sorry for them. The view was that Stern students failed because they were unable to get into a M7 and were thus subpar in terms of credentials. They acted pretty humble, according to him, partly because they were insecure around those from better schools. He said that when it came down to it, the feeling was that stern students just weren't a part of the exclusive club, a sense that they just didn't belong with the big boys.

I found this rather disturbing, but this view seems to be quite pervasive. I most likely won't apply there since i don't want to drop mad cash to live in manhattan, struggle to just get buyside interviews, and on top of that, have M7 students look down on me. F*ck that.

Your friend is a total tool. Unfortunately though, he is the typical M7 student; most of them are pretentious and obnoxious. If you care this much about prestige and how others view you, don't go to stern. You won't be happy there, and even if you get in, you should give the spot to someone who really wants to be there.

I do think that when stern students go on these joint career treks with M7 students, it's like being an ugly girl at a party full of models. They are bound to feel timid and insecure. Just the way it is.

As a note, I wouldn't say all M7 people are like this.

Also, can we drop the M7 already? such a useless ranking. Its not a hard line between 7 and 8 anymore (And I doubt it ever was).

9/12/12
hamm0:
Arbitrage1980:
Derivatives:

Talked to a friend who's a wharton grad, now working at a european office of MBB consulting. He said that during various career treks and recruiting trips with other b-schools, the M7 students looked down on the Stern students and felt sorry for them. The view was that Stern students failed because they were unable to get into a M7 and were thus subpar in terms of credentials. They acted pretty humble, according to him, partly because they were insecure around those from better schools. He said that when it came down to it, the feeling was that stern students just weren't a part of the exclusive club, a sense that they just didn't belong with the big boys.

I found this rather disturbing, but this view seems to be quite pervasive. I most likely won't apply there since i don't want to drop mad cash to live in manhattan, struggle to just get buyside interviews, and on top of that, have M7 students look down on me. F*ck that.

Your friend is a total tool. Unfortunately though, he is the typical M7 student; most of them are pretentious and obnoxious. If you care this much about prestige and how others view you, don't go to stern. You won't be happy there, and even if you get in, you should give the spot to someone who really wants to be there.

I do think that when stern students go on these joint career treks with M7 students, it's like being an ugly girl at a party full of models. They are bound to feel timid and insecure. Just the way it is.

As a note, I wouldn't say all M7 people are like this.

Also, can we drop the M7 already? such a useless ranking. Its not a hard line between 7 and 8 anymore (And I doubt it ever was).

It's ostensibly a meaningless distinction, but among finance recruiters, there is a big difference between wharton/booth/columbia on one hand and haas/stern/the rest on the other. Not saying it's fair, but that's how the companies perceive students at these schools.

9/12/12
Arbitrage1980:

among finance recruiters, there is a big difference between wharton/booth/columbia on one hand and haas/stern/the rest on the other. Not saying it's fair, but that's how the companies perceive students at these schools.

What is the basis of this statement? Anybody that thinks employers are drooling over any MBA student is truly deluding themselves. If they've done something else impressive, then fine. But nobody is getting impressed or worked up about a degree. You act like they've never met someone from one of these schools before.

Why do I keep falling for this troll behavior?

9/12/12
SirTradesaLot:
Arbitrage1980:

among finance recruiters, there is a big difference between wharton/booth/columbia on one hand and haas/stern/the rest on the other. Not saying it's fair, but that's how the companies perceive students at these schools.

What is the basis of this statement? Anybody that thinks employers are drooling over any MBA student is truly deluding themselves. If they've done something else impressive, then fine. But nobody is getting impressed or worked up about a degree. You act like they've never met someone from one of these schools before.

Why do I keep falling for this troll behavior?

So if there's no difference, why do major buyside firms recruit at wharton/booth/columbia but not stern? It can't be location, since stern is in Manhattan. I'm not trying to bash stern here but just pointing out that there is a substantive difference between the likes of wharton/booth/columbia/sloan and stern.

9/12/12
Arbitrage1980:
SirTradesaLot:
Arbitrage1980:

among finance recruiters, there is a big difference between wharton/booth/columbia on one hand and haas/stern/the rest on the other. Not saying it's fair, but that's how the companies perceive students at these schools.

What is the basis of this statement? Anybody that thinks employers are drooling over any MBA student is truly deluding themselves. If they've done something else impressive, then fine. But nobody is getting impressed or worked up about a degree. You act like they've never met someone from one of these schools before.

Why do I keep falling for this troll behavior?

So if there's no difference, why do major buyside firms recruit at wharton/booth/columbia but not stern? It can't be location, since stern is in Manhattan. I'm not trying to bash stern here but just pointing out that there is a substantive difference between the likes of wharton/booth/columbia/sloan and stern.

Please tell me which hedge funds are doing on campus recruiting of MBAs for investment positions so I can figure out how to get short those firms.

9/14/12
SirTradesaLot:
Arbitrage1980:
SirTradesaLot:
Arbitrage1980:

among finance recruiters, there is a big difference between wharton/booth/columbia on one hand and haas/stern/the rest on the other. Not saying it's fair, but that's how the companies perceive students at these schools.

What is the basis of this statement? Anybody that thinks employers are drooling over any MBA student is truly deluding themselves. If they've done something else impressive, then fine. But nobody is getting impressed or worked up about a degree. You act like they've never met someone from one of these schools before.

Why do I keep falling for this troll behavior?

So if there's no difference, why do major buyside firms recruit at wharton/booth/columbia but not stern? It can't be location, since stern is in Manhattan. I'm not trying to bash stern here but just pointing out that there is a substantive difference between the likes of wharton/booth/columbia/sloan and stern.

Please tell me which hedge funds are doing on campus recruiting of MBAs for investment positions so I can figure out how to get short those firms.

Most of the major mutual funds do: fidelity, capital group, wellington, MFS, state street, putnam.
The hedge funds that i know for a fact did OCR at hbs/wharton/booth/columbia: Citadel, passport, viking, AQR, davidson kempner, soros, moore, paulson, york, carlson, magnetar, och-ziff, SAC, Bridgewater, highbridge.

There's more, but i can't think of the other names.

9/14/12
Arbitrage1980:

Most of the major mutual funds do: fidelity, capital group, wellington, MFS, state street, putnam.
The hedge funds that i know for a fact did OCR at hbs/wharton/booth/columbia: Citadel, passport, viking, AQR, davidson kempner, soros, moore, paulson, york, carlson, magnetar, och-ziff, SAC, Bridgewater, highbridge.

There's more, but i can't think of the other names.

In 2011 there were three (3) hires from Booth in the mutual fund/hedge fund category. That is 0.7% of the class.

9/12/12

Are you going to offer any evidence besides anecdotal rumors? Look at the employment reports from Kellogg/Sloan/Booth/CBS. None of them stand out in terms % of students entering private equity or "investment management" (and who knows how that's defined). It's not until you start looking at Wharton and Harvard that the PE numbers are significantly higher.

9/13/12
hiit:

Are you going to offer any evidence besides anecdotal rumors? Look at the employment reports from Kellogg/Sloan/Booth/CBS. None of them stand out in terms % of students entering private equity or "investment management" (and who knows how that's defined). It's not until you start looking at Wharton and Harvard that the PE numbers are significantly higher.

I'd say thats more a self-fulfilling statistic. I know as of late that PE and other high finance kids have fallen out of favor with HBS, but since these statistics lag a bit (2 years on the most current, more on others) from admissions data, I'd venture to say that the higher exit rates to PE/IM/HF/etc are due to the higher entrance from PE/IM/HF/etc at HBS/Wharton.

9/12/12
Derivatives:

Talked to a friend who's a wharton grad, now working at a european office of MBB consulting. He said that during various career treks and recruiting trips with other b-schools, the M7 students looked down on the Stern students and felt sorry for them. The view was that Stern students failed because they were unable to get into a M7 and were thus subpar in terms of credentials. They acted pretty humble, according to him, partly because they were insecure around those from better schools. He said that when it came down to it, the feeling was that stern students just weren't a part of the exclusive club, a sense that they just didn't belong with the big boys.

I found this rather disturbing, but this view seems to be quite pervasive. I most likely won't apply there since i don't want to drop mad cash to live in manhattan, struggle to just get buyside interviews, and on top of that, have M7 students look down on me. F*ck that.

Brady, you are such a sad fuck.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

9/13/12

how about Stern's placement in management consulting? I know some Stenies are partner in Deloitte...but reading from the stats MBB actually do not recruit there heavily..any one has experience/insights?

9/14/12
crunchykapo:

how about Stern's placement in management consulting? I know some Stenies are partner in Deloitte...but reading from the stats MBB actually do not recruit there heavily..any one has experience/insights?

Those three firms are three of the largest recruiters at Stern. 20% of grads go into management consulting, which is relatively low, but more due to the preferences of the students than the placement opportunities. The mgmt consulting salary data is the same at Stern as any other top MBA, so they are getting the same quality jobs.

I am wise because I know that I know nothing -Socrates

Best Response
9/15/12

FUCKIN BUSTED

http://gmatclub.com/forum/are-nyu-stern-students-l...
Your only qualification for this discussion is that you've been rejected multiple times.

I am wise because I know that I know nothing -Socrates

9/15/12

He deleted the thread. I don't suppose you still have it open or cached somewhere?

9/15/12
charmander:

He deleted the thread. I don't suppose you still have it open or cached somewhere?

Nah. It's the same shit he's talking here down to a t. He goes by the name Arbitrageur at GMAT club and has been applying to business schools unsuccessfully since 2007.

I am wise because I know that I know nothing -Socrates

9/18/12

Looks like he changed his GMATClub name to Shawshank.

As proof, I present
-A google cache of one of his posts: http://i.imgur.com/rLPib.png-And the current version as it stands today: http://gmatclub.com/forum/gmat-prep-cr-collection-...

Anyway, if you look at his past WSO posts, he rags on NYC a lot.

Maybe he's mad that Columbia B-School rejected him 3+ times without an interview invite...

http://gmatclub.com/forum/members/member-90681.html

3/17/13

LOL- just read through this thread and found it very entertaining as I'm considering pursuing a MBA from NYU PT.

Arbitrage- you are sad and pathetic can't even score a 600 on your GMAT yet you bash on a school where the average GMAT score is a 700, lol.

Kudos to ThunderRoad for defrauding this tool.

As for Arbitrage, if a 700 is too difficult I highly recommend an online MBA degree from DeVry- I hear that they have a phenomenal placement % on the buy-side...as a janitor, you fucking trash.

5/28/13

Why do people that have not gone to Stern or not gone to any MBA program even respond? You don't have any basis WHATSOEVER for your post. I graduated from Stern in 2012 and I have the phone numbers in my phone this second of people who went to:

2 at ING Asset Management
Fidelity
Arch Capital
Seamans Capital
State street
JP Asset Management
2 at PIMCO
Etc.

And this is just from my graduating class that I can think off the top of my head.I also remember the following coming on campus:

Soros
Citadel

And for those asking about consulting, I can remember:

3 at McKinsey
More than I can count on my hands at Deloitte
A handful at Accenture
A few at PwC
Several at Capgemini
Several at Boston Consulting

So please don't speculate if you have no relevant experience. And the case everywhere is that the buyside is a hunt on your own. Just because people come on campus doesn't mean it is really all that much easier when it comes to the buyside.

And also,
You are not competing with a majority or most of the class for finance jobs. Stern has a finance legacy and is a finance powerhouse, but it is also easily lost that Stern has a LOT of other focuses. It does extremely well in Luxury goods, marketing, fashion, consulting, and social entrepreneurship, etc. The work does not revolve around working at a "mega fund" and there are many ways to make a LOT of money other than finance....

10/19/13

thanks

10/19/13

doing my 3rd year, its average when compared to my friends from HYPW(best) to random state schools (worst)
The location is solid, you will get more exposure with boutiques. Smaller companies don't travel much for recruiting, so NYC location would help you

10/19/13

If you put in the effort, it is a goldmine. Keep in mind, it's very easy to bolster your resume early on using the NYC boutiques. It's very easy to obtain a boutique ibanking internship during the year, being in NYC. And having that on your resume, combined with a solid GPA in a finance major practically guarantees you an interview at a BB. At that point, it's a level playing field.

Would I recommend it over HYP type? No. Is it comparable to UMich, UVa, etc. in terms of recruiting? Definitely. It's a very low cost factor for the BBs to recruit at NYU, saying most of them can practically walk there.

10/19/13

Much better recruiting for undergrad than grad, but as the previous posters mentioned, it being in nyc means that you'll get a lot of boutique banks coming to campus. So in either case, while no hypsw, doing well there and nailing the interviews should translate into no problem at all in getting into banking.

10/19/13

just below ivys and upenn...

cause i've seen enough sternies getting ibanking and ST jobs at top banks.

although i hear there was only one kid from stern made to GS last year...kind of sad really..

10/19/13

Pardon my ignorance, but what's HPYW?

10/19/13

Harvard/Princeton/Yale/Wharton

10/19/13
Patrick Bateman:

Harvard/Princeton/Yale/Wharton

Thanks. I was Googling around looking for that acronym. Haha.

10/19/13

d

10/19/13
ALT EAA:

What's the verdict on the Stern School - both undergrad and graduate? Is it a BB target? Will headhunters match Stern graduates with top job offers? What do other graduate business schools think of it?

Thanks.

As a graduate from Stern, I can tell you for sure that internships will not be your problem since it's in the city. Most of my classmates got their pick of internships and it was not unusual to do three-four internships during the first three years of their college career. This gave them a big advantage in interviews.

The other great thing is that most kids don't have to resort to low class "fake" internships. I never had to do the brokerage crap and went directly to hedge funds, boutique bank, summer internship, etc.

The year I graduated, five or six got into goldman and pretty much everyone with a 3.4+ GPA got into BB.

The school however, is weaker for MBA as it's in the top 10 rather in the top 5 for MBA.

Overall, I think it's a very good school to attend with relevant coursework and a strong finance/accounting curriculum.

10/19/13

why BB when u can be like Ari Gold.

10/19/13

lol NYU

=========================================
We are excited to formally extend to you an offer to join Bank of Ameria

10/19/13

At a entrainment industry focused shop, probably pretty good. I a bigger bank will be tougher because all of your classmates will have experience working in finance, while you were working on getting your entry into Cannes.

Ace all your PE interview questions with the WSO Private Equity Prep Pack: /guide/private-equit...

10/19/13

Tisch is a top notch school, so if the film industry is where you want to be, you will ge there.

10/19/13

This is a dumb plan.

10/19/13

Really jhoratio, why do you say that? hm...

10/19/13

People who look at investment banking as a back-up plan do not get hired at investment banks. The only people who get hired are the ones who have sufficiently proved themselves to be committed to banking. They don't want people who might have a change of heart after 4 months and quit to make movies or something. If you want to REALLY scare them, by all means double major in business and film! At one of the premier film schools in the country!

Also, an MBA is not, in any way imaginable, a sure-fire ticket to banking. Many many many get MBAs and only a tiny percentage of them go on to ibanking. It is certainly a path that has been traveled before, but let's not confuse that fact for thinking b-school is some kind of DeVry for ibankers.

Bottom line, the path to IB has to make sense to the person making the hire. At a very basic level that I'm sure even you are able to perceive, going to NYU for THREE YEARS for a film/business degree and then completely giving up film production to start as an associate at an ibank makes absolutely no sense.

10/19/13

that was never my plan, i just wanted to know what an mba from nyu is worth, and what are my options in terms of starting a business, or BBs after graduation. I know what being an investment banker is like, and I have no interest in that at all!

10/19/13

It's worth what you're willing to pay for it. If not investment banking, what on earth are you talking about with "BBs." Do you want to work at the Red Ryder toy gun company?

And about your options to start a business - this is a capitalist economy. If you have some capital, then you have a lot of options. If not, not so much.

10/19/13

I know I need work experience before attempting to apply to mba programs. What type of opportunities are there in entertainment/media combined with business? Like consulting, and stuff.
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

10/19/13

work at a film production company or a film financing fund. Both will mix business with entertainment.

You can't consult, you have no experience...at least from my understanding.

10/19/13

why go to NYU for MBA if you want to go for Film. Stern is known for Finance and Tish is known for Film. So go apply to USC or NYU TIsch.

10/19/13

You won't get into any BB from NYU anyways.

10/19/13

It's a solid top 10 program, and if you want to work for a bulge bracket bank in NYC, it would rank even higher. But it's nowhere near the caliber of HBS/Stanford/Wharton/Booth. And the students there have a HUGE inferiority complex towards Columbia Business.

10/19/13

Tier below H/W/S and even Booth and MIT but still a heavy hitter for the sell side.

NYU Stern will give you a good shot at a front office position at a major bank. I would consider that elite.

10/19/13

Agreed. For the jobs people on this site care about, definitely top 10. I know a LOT of people on the sell side (and within my own buy side firm) who have a Stern MBA.

10/19/13

For wall street jobs its top 5 in the US.

I definitely don't think they should have a "HUGE inferiority complex" to Columbia. Going to CBS over Stern doesn't increase your profile quality, everything else equal (unless you went to a shitty undergrad and worked a regional job at a no-name firm).

10/19/13
Seigniorage:

For wall street jobs its top 5 in the US.

I definitely don't think they should have a "HUGE inferiority complex" to Columbia. Going to CBS over Stern doesn't increase your profile quality, everything else equal (unless you went to a shitty undergrad and worked a regional job at a no-name firm).

Well, I talked to a lot of Sternies, and they themselves told me that most of them were dinged at columbia business and have a "chip on their shoulder." Some of them went to a london banking career trek in November, which was jointly held with other top schools like hbs, wharton, sloan, columbia, booth. And they all said they were looked down upon by people from those schools.

Regarding careers, if you want sell-side, stern will be fine. But they get virtually no on-campus recruiting for hedge funds or investment management while columbia gets TONS.

10/19/13

The only real downside at the grad level is the lack of buy side recruiting during OCR. There's an absolutely massive sell side presence and some very, very solid opportunities, but you'll see mostly IBD and to a lesser extent, S&T placement for the most part.

Most people do things to add days to their life. I do things to add life to my days.

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10/19/13

It is a top business school and will get you into the front office of BB. But not on the same level as HBS, Wharton, Stanford.

10/19/13

location, location, location

10/19/13
turtles:

location, location, location

Says the freshman PWM intern with a certified star...

Most people do things to add days to their life. I do things to add life to my days.

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10/19/13

It's not one of the M7 but it definitely has a great reputation in NY and nationwide. Probably not as much internationally but it's still a great MBA program. Like Berkeley Haas, the odds are significantly against you since the admittance rate is low.

10/19/13

Well, I talked to a lot of Sternies, and they themselves told me that most of them were dinged at columbia business and have a "chip on their shoulder." Some of them went to a london banking career trek in November, which was jointly held with other top schools like hbs, wharton, sloan, columbia, booth. And they all said they were looked down upon by people from those schools.

Regarding careers, if you want sell-side, stern will be fine. But they get virtually no on-campus recruiting for hedge funds or investment management while columbia gets TONS.

maybe. although for what it's worth stern MBA had a higher average GMAT and lower admission rate than Columbia for 2010 (its average gpa was lower however).

10/19/13

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10/19/13
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10/19/13

There have been many great comebacks throughout history. Jesus was dead but then came back as an all-powerful God-Zombie.

10/19/13
10/19/13

There have been many great comebacks throughout history. Jesus was dead but then came back as an all-powerful God-Zombie.