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8/16/17

Let me start off by saying that although I wish to voice some personal sentiments, I am primarily trying to quench my curiosity regarding the matter. I hope my fellow monkeys will understand that this is not intended as a provocation.

As a Swede, and much like the rest of the world, I've been following the inception of a Trump administration with amazement. Following the president's handling of the events in Charlottesville, it seems that after a multitude of scandals and a continuous restructuring of the white house, the accumulation of events has started to reach a tipping point. I think this concern is further accentuated by the dismantling of the Manufacturing Council and Strategy & Policy Forum - which, as we've learned, was an intent that the members maintained in advance of Trump's decision.

So when these business leaders, whom I might consider the ambassadors of the private sector and capitalism as such, decide to distance themselves from a president who would rather display lenience towards alt right movements with their camo gear and combat boots and shaved heads and nazi flags - would you not say that Trump has gone too far? After all, in this forum specifically, I would be inclined to believe that you choose the suit before the combat boots and shaved head, thereon catering more to the concerns of business leaders than militant activists.

More hypothetically, is there something about Trump that you would like to have changed?

(Let me just be clear: I offer no less grief to parties and movements on the opposite extreme of the political spectrum. Any political movements that manifests itself as a lifestyle - from fashion to hair styles to symbols to music genres - does little to convince me that they are mature enough for the bureaucracy and dullness that comes with an arena for intelligent politics)

Comments (283)

8/16/17

Much of it is really just media hype, but Trump has been a lot more tone deaf on this issue than usual. It doesn't take a political animal to understand that there is NO DOWNSIDE TO VOCALLY DENOUNCING WHITE SUPREMACISTS. Trump's desire to play both sides here is quite puzzling, but I suspect it has more to do with his pushing back against being told what to do by the same media interests he hates and has rolled much of the way onto becoming President. As to whether he could ever turn off his ego long enough to be sensible...I'm skeptical. I'm still a fan but I can admit he's really botched this.

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8/17/17

TL/DR: Trump is under attack from bureaucrats & commies and doesn't have the temperament to manage the optics well.
@kallester

Adverse selection generally means only the worst people rise to power in Gov't, due to it's warped incentives. They don't want to lose that power. CNN was legitimately found to be running official Psyops and hiring multiple CIA agents. So, be careful which news outlets you source. The world was shocked when Trump won. Nobody that has traveled the country and appreciates our core culture (independence, innovation, and christian-like values) was. There are literally craigslist adds paying BLM and AntiFa protesters to stir shit up more shit at these already dumb rallies. Some people want to shape the world into their vision. Some billionaires can buy influence to push their agenda quite far. People who dismiss this as implausible are quite naive and should study history.

Most 1st world foreigners will never understand America because:
1.) They live in a much more homogeneous culture with reasonably uniform topography.
2.) They don't mind socialism.

With those caveats, what you also probably can't appreciate is how large and bureaucratic the US Gov't is. Having clerked for the SEC, served in the military, and worked as a defense contractor covering financial ops, almost nobody has any clue what is going on. Departments don't talk to each other, are incredibly redundant, and are incentivized to waste resources (due to illogical budget controls).

You have to remember, John Brennan (last CIA director) is a Muslim apologist and Obama's real father is likely a communist (Frank Marshall Davis). Obama also worked for a known CIA front right out of undergrad. After 8 years of putting all his favorite people in government, changing presidents didn't even matter. His policies (rouge CIA / globalist policies) are still in place in the bureaucracy.

8/17/17

Someone's woke af.

8/17/17
HazelJ:

TL/DR: Trump is under attack from bureaucrats & commies and doesn't have the temperament to manage the optics well.
@kallester

Adverse selection generally means only the worst people rise to power in Gov't, due to it's warped incentives. They don't want to lose that power. CNN was legitimately found to be running official Psyops and hiring multiple CIA agents. So, be careful which news outlets you source. The world was shocked when Trump won. Nobody that has traveled the country and appreciates our core culture (independence, innovation, and christian-like values) was. There are literally craigslist adds paying BLM and AntiFa protesters to stir shit up more shit at these already dumb rallies. Some people want to shape the world into their vision. Some billionaires can buy influence to push their agenda quite far. People who dismiss this as implausible are quite naive and should study history.

Most 1st world foreigners will never understand America because:
1.) They live in a much more homogeneous culture with reasonably uniform topography.
2.) They don't mind socialism.

With those caveats, what you also probably can't appreciate is how large and bureaucratic the US Gov't is. Having clerked for the SEC, served in the military, and worked as a defense contractor covering financial ops, almost nobody has any clue what is going on. Departments don't talk to each other, are incredibly redundant, and are incentivized to waste resources (due to illogical budget controls).

You have to remember, John Brennan (last CIA director) is a Muslim apologist and Obama's real father is likely a communist (Frank Marshall Davis). Obama also worked for a known CIA front right out of undergrad. After 8 years of putting all his favorite people in government, changing presidents didn't even matter. His policies (rouge CIA / globalist policies) are still in place in the bureaucracy.

Wtf? I've worked in a goverment agency. While there is a lot of waste (buying extra machines, spending money on cars for everyone, budgets for snacks and beverages to fill a fridge, paper waste, people taking multiple walks to Starbucks) there is nothing in government that actually would make one believe that the whole thing is people sneaking around killing people and making threats like in an episode of House of Cards. Ben Shapiro has said the same thing. And I really don't get what you're saying to the other stuff

"Loser terrorists" & "bad hombres"

"Typical candidates are those who attended a top-tier academic institution"
-Most job applications

8/17/17

This is the world we live in. People get on the internet and read bullshit conspiracy theories then come and barf them back out disguised as fact. This is on WSO where the average user is either college educated, or currently in college as well. Imagine the mindset of the remaining 60% of the population, shit is kinda frightening.

8/17/17

It's just people want so bad to believe that the solution is easy enough that one man could come in and no matter who he is, as a person, he'd be able to implement sweeping change. Unfortunately, there is no easy solution. It is frightening since it is unlikely a better model to be civil will develop. We have to deal with the majority of the population coping with intense stupidity in a democracy.

"Loser terrorists" & "bad hombres"

"Typical candidates are those who attended a top-tier academic institution"
-Most job applications

8/17/17

Lol, I'm not talking about petty waste or budget inflation. I know the DoD is different, but we had big "programs" allocated through the "wrong" cost centers without authorizations.

I'm not saying most waste is a conspiracy. However it's like the hidden hand theory of government: The unobservable force of idiots moving organizations toward chaos.

Also, Ben Shapiro is a cuck. He'd deny the Tuskegee experiment could have ever taken place if it weren't proven.

8/17/17

I get what you're saying, but the fact remains that you can't get things done without the people. So maybe money is being moved around so that someone gets paid, so what? Bankers make inflated bank too. If someone disappears off the face of the earth, or is maimed, people notice, and will most likely notice who is the likely aggressor. To think that money being moved around means influence is shifting is silly. The might have power and more influence, but not necessarily running every corner of the government. Overpaid bankers get nice suits, not millions of people to dance for them. Overpaid politicians get nice roles, doesn't have anything to do with what they do once in that role. I see Trump as being one who is unfit for the office, which I think he has proven with his lack of temperament. When I want to target Trump it is because of his character, not his politics.

Let me add, by your 'adverse selection' comment, you seem like you have no reason to believe Trump didn't collude with Russia to win. Otherwise, how the fuck did he win?

"Loser terrorists" & "bad hombres"

"Typical candidates are those who attended a top-tier academic institution"
-Most job applications

8/17/17

He won because Hillary ignored her base. It's blatantly simple. Just look at the states that we're 20 year blue that went red.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

8/17/17

Yeah, but this other guy doesn't think so, by his comments. That's the only point I was making about Russia. Hazel thinks the only way to succeed is through a combination of collusion, graft, treason, and other dirty acts.

"Loser terrorists" & "bad hombres"

"Typical candidates are those who attended a top-tier academic institution"
-Most job applications

8/17/17

I'm not going to get into the cost center allocation issue further. Anyone who's worked for DoD long enough and held a high clearance knows EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

Adverse selection comment is like saying all people who want to be cops are bad. Sure, most are shitty people, but not all. I actually think Trump got help ( advice/intel, not ballot stuffing) from Russia indirectly. I have no problem with that. Doesn't make him even remotely corrupt relative to other officials.
@iBankedUp

8/17/17
HazelJ:

I'm not going to get into the cost center allocation issue further. Anyone who's worked for DoD long enough and held a high clearance knows EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

Adverse selection comment is like saying all people who want to be cops are bad. Sure, most are shitty people, but not all. I actually think Trump got help ( advice/intel, not ballot stuffing) from Russia indirectly. I have no problem with that. Doesn't make him even remotely corrupt relative to other officials.
@iBankedUp

Did you know it's treason to collude with a foreign government on national issues? How is that ok? There was a time where the right, especially, was hardline against any notion of colluding with a foreign government, certainly no less a Russian one.

"Loser terrorists" & "bad hombres"

"Typical candidates are those who attended a top-tier academic institution"
-Most job applications

8/17/17

It's illegal to smoke marijuana, that doesn't make it unethical.

8/18/17

I cannot believe you're still going on with this Russia shit. How anyone believes this obvious political maneuvering is beyond me.

Only thing even attempted to be tied is Russia tried to influence the election though hacking emails. That's it and it's a joke.

Honestly, if Putin personally hacked every voting machine to prevent corrupt and criminal HRC from getting elected, I'd give him a medal.

Russia is not our enemy. For the love of god.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

8/18/17

I'm waiting for a conclusive findings with the Trump administration in this ongoing investigation. So far, the proceedings have been moving forward due to new information coming to light. As I understand it, Russia has interfered in sovereign elections before 2016 and the US. If evidence comes to light that Russia and Trump sought to undermine the US system, my vote will be in favor of the US.

I find it confusing that you believe in conservative values and Trump-like 'strength and power' because that's the only thing he knows, but refuse the notion of how well this translates into Putin's natural understanding of the world as something to conquer. Whether he's KGB or not, we can debate, but what we cannot debate is that he grew up and was part of a time where the KGB and the world, and Russia held onto the belief that in order to grow economically required expanding outwardly, by force or by manipulation.

Whether there was meddling in the US election or not will no longer be a function of ideas and pontificating, it will become a fact one way or the other. Russia, at times, and the US, at times, is factually interested in expanding outwardly into other countries for influence. I think that's a fact and it depends on how the country is being governed. Putin to me, is someone who would be more likely to govern this way. He's shown it in many ways. It's a problem is we want countries in Africa or Asia and places like Columbia to continue to develop in a way that we view as being open to ideas and pushing forward a message of diplomacy, good and orderly trade, and sound governing.

"Loser terrorists" & "bad hombres"

"Typical candidates are those who attended a top-tier academic institution"
-Most job applications

8/18/17

I'm not a conservative. I don't hate gays. I don't push religion on people. I don't believe in fucking the backbone of this country, I don't believe in endless war.

Conservatives are only less garbage than liberals. Trumps a populist. I'm a populist.

And there is no new evidence. It's all crap. A global real estate developer will have contact with various Russia people. I know Russian people.

Trumps some met with a Russia lawyer who said they had dirt on Hillary. Cool. How is that collusion. Manafort had business dealings with Russian people connected to the Kremlin. Cool, how is that collusion.

What people who believe this fairy tail forget is the history of it. Trump praised Putin and HRC used it to slam Trump. When Podestas emails were hacked she used it to diminish the damning results. She originally said the emails could have been faked and then moved away from it.

Then, Russia hacked the voting booths. When that was shown to be impossible, it because "Russia Influenced " the election. And how did they influence it? Through the Podesta email "hacking" aka spoofing a reset password link that anyone could do.

You influence an election though money, oppo reserch and influence.

Russia did t give trump money
Russia didn't have oppo research
Russia didn't influence anyone

The press was behind HRC. She had all the money. Republicans were against Trump. HRC was projected to win in a landslide because the pools were shit.

Blaming Russia is garbage and ruining a potential relationship. And if Russia is the enemy because they try and influence our elections than the USA is the enemy of many nations because we outright overthrow people.

Don't ever call me a conservative. I'd rather be called trash as I consider that an improvement.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

8/18/17

I continue to wait on the results of the investigation by Robert Mueller. Lol at "no new evidence", Trump's son first said he never met with Russians, then said he met with one Russian about adoptions, then e-mails come out where he explicitly discussed meeting with Russians to get damaging information on HRC but that counts as "no new evidence". We are living in the twilight zone.

8/18/17

Is meeting with a Russian lawyer a criminal offense?

Do you understand what collusion is? Cause it doesn't seem you do.

What exactly did Russia and Trump do together to influence the election? Because talking and meeting with people who are Russian isn't a crime. And a presidential candidate meeting with Foreign country officials is pretty normal.

Trump met with the Mexican president prior to being elected. Did Mexico try and influence the election?

I continue to wait for evidence as well. I'll be waiting a while.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

8/18/17

Dude, that is new evidence, I didn't say it was conclusive evidence proving collusion. They keep getting caught in lies about this Russia situation, I await the conclusion of the investigation. Till then there's no point in speculating, you seem pretty sure of yourself as if you are part of Mueller's team though.

8/18/17

Evidence is material that supports a conviction of a crime.

Meeting with a Russian person who is a lawyer is not evidence of a crime. It's a coincidence.

It would be evidence if talking to russia was a crime. It would have been evidence back in the 60s when the USSR and USA were in a Cold War.

Hence why meeting with Mexican officials prior to being elected isn't a crime.

And I love your excuses. You don't need to be Mueller to look at evidence, analyze the history of things and make up your own mind. This is a public "trial" if you will and we are all jurors. You don't need to be on the inside to not see how worthless this is.

Oh, the manafort "raid". The one where they came and took papers and materials he already handed over. Nothing but PR, just like this whole thing.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

8/18/17
TNA:

I'm not a conservative. I don't hate gays. I don't push religion on people. I don't believe in fucking the backbone of this country, I don't believe in endless war.

Conservatives are only less garbage than liberals. Trumps a populist. I'm a populist.

And there is no new evidence. It's all crap. A global real estate developer will have contact with various Russia people. I know Russian people.

Trumps some met with a Russia lawyer who said they had dirt on Hillary. Cool. How is that collusion. Manafort had business dealings with Russian people connected to the Kremlin. Cool, how is that collusion.

What people who believe this fairy tail forget is the history of it. Trump praised Putin and HRC used it to slam Trump. When Podestas emails were hacked she used it to diminish the damning results. She originally said the emails could have been faked and then moved away from it.

Then, Russia hacked the voting booths. When that was shown to be impossible, it because "Russia Influenced " the election. And how did they influence it? Through the Podesta email "hacking" aka spoofing a reset password link that anyone could do.

You influence an election though money, oppo reserch and influence.

Russia did t give trump money
Russia didn't have oppo research
Russia didn't influence anyone

The press was behind HRC. She had all the money. Republicans were against Trump. HRC was projected to win in a landslide because the pools were shit.

Blaming Russia is garbage and ruining a potential relationship. And if Russia is the enemy because they try and influence our elections than the USA is the enemy of many nations because we outright overthrow people.

Don't ever call me a conservative. I'd rather be called trash as I consider that an improvement.

We can agree on some things here.

But by populist, what is that? What does that mean?

I just read up on Ivanka and Kushner's dealings in Russia. There are some pretty strange coincidences there. With the passive attitude towards America's Nazis, upcoming rallies, and Trump/Bannon's general being, I'm starting to get interested in whether I was right about Russia's interest in undermining America.

"Loser terrorists" & "bad hombres"

"Typical candidates are those who attended a top-tier academic institution"
-Most job applications

8/18/17

It means caring about the people.

Globalism benefits stockholders, companies and cheaper(ish) goods. But let's not pretend it doesn't lower wages for people who stay here.

Populism isn't what the parties due. Dems have rich liberals and poor and largely uneducated minorities. Republicans have big business and poor and largely uneducated mainly white people.

Populists peal off both bottoms (the people) and tell the assholes to shove it.

We've had a situation where the ruling class has forgotten that the people need some bread and love from time to time. The rich on both parties don't live near the common people, send their kids to schools with common people, eat, live, think, etc.

lets be real. No one wants to be around rude, ignorant and trashy people. But I'm taking about middle class, normal people. You cannot live in a bubble, enjoy all the spoils and ignore your fellow countryman.

We are all Americans. Race, income, class. Government should serve us all. That's populism. It can go to extreme and then it becomes communism and fascism. But populism right now is the middle and that's why both parties hate it.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

8/18/17
TNA:

It means caring about the people.

Globalism benefits stockholders, companies and cheaper(ish) goods. But let's not pretend it doesn't lower wages for people who stay here.

Populism isn't what the parties due. Dems have rich liberals and poor and largely uneducated minorities. Republicans have big business and poor and largely uneducated mainly white people.

Populists peal off both bottoms (the people) and tell the assholes to shove it.

We've had a situation where the ruling class has forgotten that the people need some bread and love from time to time. The rich on both parties don't live near the common people, send their kids to schools with common people, eat, live, think, etc.

lets be real. No one wants to be around rude, ignorant and trashy people. But I'm taking about middle class, normal people. You cannot live in a bubble, enjoy all the spoils and ignore your fellow countryman.

We are all Americans. Race, income, class. Government should serve us all. That's populism. It can go to extreme and then it becomes communism and fascism. But populism right now is the middle and that's why both parties hate it.

But I don't think it does move on a spectrum. Moderatism is in the middle. The spectrum is Fascism and Communism/Socialism. Both two evils and widely appreciated today. You can see it in the 'smart' people's very well explained and well worded arguments against holding a negative view of Trump right here on this thread. There will always be a 'rational' reason to want for more and better for 'the people'. So many times, idealists have tried to show this. Solutions should be just and based on morally objectionable grounds. There should not be some sort of, 'well what works for the people is best for me'. Slavery was predicated upon this fallacy. And it was the reason I hated the left and couldn't be on that side, but it's now the reason I don't respect the right and can't be on that side either.

"Loser terrorists" & "bad hombres"

"Typical candidates are those who attended a top-tier academic institution"
-Most job applications

8/18/17

Hillary's team met with Ukranian officials to try and find dirt on the Donald. I don't hear anyone talking about treason there.

"Give me a fucking beer", Anonymous Genius

8/18/17

This is a catch-22 for democracts, if they actually find evidence and impeach Trump before the end of the year they can kiss their 2018 hopes good bye. They need Trump in the WH more than they can possibly admit.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

8/18/17

LOL, do you have any idea how much outside assistance politicians get from foreign countries? If I am not mistaken the DNC had accepted hundreds of millions of dollars from countries like China, Saudi Arabia and other dictatorships that they used to fund campaigns and got caught and were forced to turn over the money they had left.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

8/18/17
heister:

LOL, do you have any idea how much outside assistance politicians get from foreign countries? If I am not mistaken the DNC had accepted hundreds of millions of dollars from countries like China, Saudi Arabia and other dictatorships that they used to fund campaigns and got caught and were forced to turn over the money they had left.

So, it was wrong then. What's different now?

"Loser terrorists" & "bad hombres"

"Typical candidates are those who attended a top-tier academic institution"
-Most job applications

8/18/17

The point is that there is no history of people being punished for what people are accusing Trump of and this is ignoring the total lack of actual evidence that anything was even done.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

8/18/17

Cause accepting money is wrong. Meeting with someone from those countries isn't.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

8/17/17

You're right that most of the news that comes to us generally gets channelled through CNN and other major outlets, so I think don't think we always get the whole picture - or at least there is some ambiguity to it. What I see and read is a president who acts on impulse (which is worrying to me as I don't see how a real estate mogul can act on impulsive intuition when addressing north korean nuke threats) gets blocked at any attempt to enforce, change or repeal a policy and cant keep an administration together. This is, however, what we on the other side of the atlantic are being told.

I don't agree with your assumptions about 1st world foreigners though, at least when it comes to Europe. If the EU was to centralise disparate fiscal policies in Brussels, we would essentially have a United States of Europe. It is in fact because of how diverse our national cultures in combination with how intertwined our economies are that we have severe issues, as shown by the recent eurocrisis.

As for socialism, I'm from Sweden - a country often associated with socialism. I'm not a socialist myself, and the word leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, however, I'm not living in a soviet-style grey and gloomy state where people are lining up for meal tickets. In fact, Sweden and the other scandinavian countries are among the wealthiest, healthiest, most technologically advanced and most innovative countries in the world.If you want to start a company in Sweden, the government will hand you 5-10k and wish you good luck. Some might call us socialists for having free healthcare and education, but even after tax we still manage to pop off to the french riviera in droves and puke out our hotel windows and onto italian models.

To be fair, scandinavian countries have small populations so perhaps a dollar in tax feels productive to a greater share of the overall population than in the US or other European countries for that matter. Nonetheless, the reason we don't mind it is often because we don't *feel *it.

8/18/17

Trump tweets/speak mostly on impulse. Occassionally, he trolls the press intentionally. Sometimes that's lost in translation. But we're not really behind the curtain to see if it manifests itself in his actions. All legit accounts I've heard are that he's a much more measured man in person. I'm also a fan of things he does that don't get favorable media coverage: mass deportations of MS13 gang members, strange surges in the number of pedo rings being busted, and the shoutdown of Kim Jong that actually appears to have worked (in conjunction with other 'pressure'). I'm sure he is in over his head with "the swamp", but he's proven quite resilient.

He's only been in office 8 months. Legislation takes time here. Obamacare took 3/4 years. Activist judges are thwarting his exec power, but the supreme court upheld the travel ban (which also got no press). Dropping holdovers from BO administration or DC insiders (Reince) is part of the game. He just acted too slowly. I'm giving him some time. BTW, I'm black and HATE his support of aggressive police tactics. But, we can't have it all. Press is the 5th column right now

I was only referring to individual countries. The eurozone was doomed because each nation has such a distinct cultures. By country, culture is mostly homogeneous. I've been to almost every country in Europe, including Sweden. Your std of living is quite high and admirable. But, what's the population? Could that happen at scale? And, while you may like getting free biz money. Older Swedes who have to compete with you and pay more in taxes may not.... You've also got some state owed fossil fuel reserves which support your economic system. Give the migrants, who don't share your values, 10 more years of welfare and see where you end up. (I hope this doesn't happen)

@kallester

8/17/17

You hit the nail with the energy reserves comment. Sweden, like most Scandinavian countries is hugely energy rich. That's why Sweden can enjoy such wealth, low population and huge amounts of reserves prime for government nationalization. You couldn't do that in Italy or Spain. Venezuela tried, but their oil is far too impure to make nationalization by the Gov profitable, well look what happened. Dumb American's scream of European socialism as perfect because of Sweden, Norway, Finland, etc. Why isn't South America perfect, they've got plenty of energy reserves.

8/18/17

@HazelJ

Indeed, the size of the population matters. Building a model airplane is a lot easier and requires fewer hands than building a real one. However, Sweden, Finland and Denmark are not rich in fossil fuels. The Norwegians were blessed with the oil. In terms of GDP per capita, Sweden yields USD 55 000, whereas Norway yields USD 90 000. Sweden exports lumber and paper and some minerals but the bulk of exports come from vehicles, machines and weapons. They also have a strong IT sector. Same goes for Finland.

I think the reason why politics work well in Sweden and other Scandinavian countries is because the people keep the politicians' balls in a vice. Politicians are deprived of any opportunity for flagrant behaviour or frivolous spending of any shape or form. Politicians in southern Europe are more prone to flirting with corruption and whether they are left or right, for or against the EU, they will always find a way to piss off their populations. Not to mention that these countries have to uphold the world's most adorned investment banks: the catholic and orthodox churches.

8/18/17

I like having this discussion and appreciate your perspective. I'm glad you don't take my arguments as hostility. That's often lost in political discussions, especially on the internet.
$55k/capita is still a huge amount. Especially when you have so much less land mass for infrastructure & other gov't spend (172,756 mi2 compared to 3.797 million mi2). Plus, you don't have to support a huge standing army. Every Swedish industry you mentioned is dwarfed by it's counterpart in the US. Also, it's easier to hold politician accountable when there's a unified culture and fewer degrees of separation. But you're 100% right that our political system is corrupt. Legistlators/Bureaucrats have so many more rights than other citizens, it's astonishing. They all can carry concealed, insider trade at will, are exempt from state level arrest, etc. They can setup fake charities to sell favors/influence. Their children can even traffic drugs on their behalf and get away with it. We do need a constitutional convention. All that said, there are only 2 or 3 countries I'd ever consider living in (i've been to 50+). That's how good 'murica is despite its flaws. @kallester

8/18/17

No hostility sensed here, I'm engaged in this discussion because I want to be tested on the robustness of my ideas and beliefs and I'm happy you're doing so.

If there is one thing I can agree with Trump on is that the US should not have to carry the burden of being the world's police force. To my knowledge, aside from the US there are only 3 NATO members who meet the threshold for military expenditures (that is military expenditures should account for a minimum of 2% of a member country's GDP). I find it preposterous that countries so casually choose to free-ride on the US military. Luxembourg might be pardoned because they are a tiny country of wealthy bankers and few soldiers.

You mentioned migrants. IMO, the problem with migration is not the ambiguous values that they introduce to Sweden. Swedish culture is pretty scarce. We haven't been at war for centuries so we can't really add valour to our national identity. We're 88% atheist, so we don't understand or associate ourselves with theology and its many institutions. We rarely mention or celebrate our viking ancestors (maybe because ABBA is a cuter representation of the contemporary Swede than bearded men who raped and pillaged). So, Swedish culture is extremely scarce in what it inherits from history and is almost exclusively portrayed by modern ideals such as equal pay for men and women etc. etc. Foreign customs are welcome because otherwise we will survive solely on meatballs until the day we die.

A much greater issue is when prosperity meets socialism (this is where socialism becomes truly problematic for us). All Swedes can get free education and gain access to knowledge-intensive jobs. Meanwhile, "blue collar" jobs are heavily protected by labor unions. We recently had problems in Stockholm because waste collectors went on strike for being forced to extend their number of working hours from 29 to 34 without a pay increase (the average salary for a waste collector in Sweden is... USD 4k per month...). So basically with every Swede being able to educate themselves, more and more jobs are requiring degrees for simple jobs (I once saw a job post for a hotel cleaner where it was "preferable if you had a degree in hygiene" whatever that is). Meanwhile, unions are making it extremely expensive for employers to higher low-skilled labor for low-skilled jobs.

This being said, there is a Swedish industry that is equal to the US in size and could welcome more labor, namely the forestry industry. The Swedes who argue that we can't fit migrants are delusional. 69% of our country is covered by forests - build tree houses. And for those Swedes who complain that they are losing their jobs to migrants.. I'm sorry but if you had access to free higher education and you can't compete with a dude who doesn't speak the language, who was brought up dodging bullets and who came to this country on a floating door, then you don't deserve that job.

@HazelJ

8/18/17

To be fair Sweden has its fair share of inequality as well. Ask immigrants from Stockholm-Rinkeby why they rioted. Situation is similar to Paris-Seine Saint Denis .

8/18/17

@storyofmylife

Absolutely. Economic inequality between suburbs and larger cities is off the charts. People in Stockholm extremely high standards of living. We think it helps to improve connections between the center and the suburbs.. What does that help if the people in the suburbs can't afford an apple in town, let alone the ticket for the metro? I believe this is closely connected to the selectivity of prosperity.

8/18/17

I'm truly baffled when you say you don't have a culture. Openness and egalitarianism are components of culture. Many other countries don't share these, especially to the degree you do. Islamic culture is anything but ambiguous.

8/18/17

Sweden's culture is IKEA and H&M.

8/18/17

@HazelJ

Maybe it is because I spent a year in Rome and had a taste of the richness of Italian culture ;)

8/18/17

@HazelJ

I should elaborate. I'm not saying that Sweden does not have a culture. I'm saying that Sweden's culture does not possess a clear national identity, nor is this culture rooted in tradition and history. Openness and egalitarianism are modern virtues that have developed in the absence of invasive religious doctrine and are rather products of what the average Swede believes is common sense. If I'm honest I might be able to sympathise more with an Italian who has negative sentiments about muslim migrants than a Swede. Italians have a catholic church this is so deeply coded in their society that introducing a massive influx of a disparate religion might create a theological nightmare. I don't see this happening in Sweden because, at least from my perspective and amidst the people I know, we don't care about religion and we don't listen to pro-religious arguments.

8/18/17

Sweden has been egalitarian for a long time, if I read my history right. Anyway, the problem is not what Swedes believe, but what muslims believe. They will seek to impose their religious doctrine and culture on Swedish institutions. @kallester I sustpect that it will not be seen as "common sense" by native Swedes.

8/18/17

Well, I oppose all overexposure of any religious institution so I would agree that I hope it doesn't come to that. I've always argued that if people want to listen to their church bells or islamic prayer calls (Adhan) they should do so with headphones.

8/18/17

Is accepting mass migrants worth becoming the rape capital of the west though? https://gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rap...
http://ibtimes.co.uk/top-5-countries-highest-r...

8/18/17

2 reasons why you should be a bit cautious with those figures:

1) Every instance of rape or sexual assault in Sweden is counted as a single case. This means that if you are in a relationship where you have been raped or sexually assaulted 50 times, that is 50 cases added to those stats.
2) There is an intense amount of work being done by NGOs to help victims speak out and to educate people about what constitutes sexual assault (many didn't know that indecent exposure is considered a sexual assault). If more people are coming out saying that they have been victims, that's a good thing even if it feeds the stats and creates a grim picture.

Nonetheless, there have been many alarming events where groups of predominately migrants have assaulted women at festivals and public swimming pools. I hope those individuals get deported immediately and that the community of nonviolent migrants realise that their permission/support to stay in Sweden may be contingent on hindering these occurrences.

8/18/17
kallester:

@HazelJ

Indeed, the size of the population matters. Building a model airplane is a lot easier and requires fewer hands than building a real one. However, Sweden, Finland and Denmark are not rich in fossil fuels. The Norwegians were blessed with the oil. In terms of GDP per capita, Sweden yields USD 55 000, whereas Norway yields USD 90 000. Sweden exports lumber and paper and some minerals but the bulk of exports come from vehicles, machines and weapons. They also have a strong IT sector. Same goes for Finland.

I think the reason why politics work well in Sweden and other Scandinavian countries is because the people keep the politicians' balls in a vice. Politicians are deprived of any opportunity for flagrant behaviour or frivolous spending of any shape or form. Politicians in southern Europe are more prone to flirting with corruption and whether they are left or right, for or against the EU, they will always find a way to piss off their populations. Not to mention that these countries have to uphold the world's most adorned investment banks: the catholic and orthodox churches.

Something important to note is that the Northwestern European countries also tend to have freer economies, despite higher taxes. If you look at most index rankings, the Nordic/northwest European countries tend to be easier to do business in than the Anglo countries. The American left wants to emulate Europe's welfare state (and taxes) but with American-style business regulation. I think that's a recipe for disaster.

8/30/17

Scandinavia and Germany have relatively streamlined business regulations because they have strong labor unions that often have seats on companies' boards of directors. So everything balances out.

If you applied that regulatory scheme to America, it wouldn't work because employees have zero leverage and companies pay zero attention to anyone except shareholders (specifically activists like Icahn and Ackman). You'd just end up with employees and customers getting taken to the cleaners.

8/30/17
houstontxn:

Scandinavia and Germany have relatively streamlined business regulations because they have strong labor unions that often have seats on companies' boards of directors. So everything balances out.

If you applied that regulatory scheme to America, it wouldn't work because employees have zero leverage and companies pay zero attention to anyone except shareholders (specifically activists like Icahn and Ackman). You'd just end up with employees and customers getting taken to the cleaners.

Uhh, I don't see how A leads to B, i.e. Strong labor unions = streamlined regulation. That literally makes no sense.

8/18/17

This is the truth. People are being pitted against eachother and divided intentionally. MLK was only assassinated after he started converging races to fight economic disparities. JFK was only assassinated after he said that the CIA and secret societies needed to be "splintered into thousands of pieces and scattered into the winds".

The issue here is that people are buying into the narrative. The end goal is to create a borderless - global society with 1 large central banking system (obviously, control the money supply - control the world). The idea is continually pushed by the likes of The Economist (Rothschild owned) and other mainstream magazines. http://economist.com/node/166471
The central bank is being thrust upon the world by force. People like George Soros are Rothschild lackeys and are responsible for breaking down societies, destroying economies, and rebuilding them with their puppet regime in place (hence the endless string of wars). Of course, the CIA and other covert ops have been complicit in helping along these lines. If we look to history the CIA has been one of, if not the largest terrorist organizations in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Papercliph...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltraToday's news- https://yahoo.com/news/cia-torture-psychologis...

One thing to consider - the media narrative has consistently been focused on social issues that are either fabricated (100 different genders, what bathroom to use, using proper pronouns, identity politics) or put to bed 30+ years ago. This not only raises tensions (sex/race/religious), but it diverts attention from things that are actually important.
- https://youtu.be/GYNVNhB-m0o
The reason Trump calls the majority of media outlets "Fake News" is because the majority of it is. The agenda is as clear and it's seemingly working.
1. Make people believe that words are violence.
2. Use inflammatory language to paint entire group under 1 brush - (call every conservative a nazi).
3. Create physical altercations in the streets by hiring excitable college students and busing them in. These students are already being fully indoctrinated in their liberal arts classes, so this is pretty simple.
4. Create mayhem wherever possible and identify this as an excuse to silence free speech/erase history (google changing search algos, banning free speech applications for android, tearing down/defacing monuments, changing Wikipedia entries, Facebook censoring conservative chat rooms, etc., etc.).
5. Once the populace is fully demoralized there will either be a complete police state, a major loss of liberties, or a civil war.

For all of these reasons I have come to believe that Trump is truly doing his best but is facing a great deal of evil forces within the establishment. In reality, the issue isn't democrat vs. republican - it's the people vs. the establishment. The majority of reasonable people are happy to debate policy, but once you introduce violence, chaos, and take away free speech - all debate ceases to exist.

8/18/17

Its not really puzzling, he says things as he sees them. He isn't wrong when he says both sides were to blame for the events of the past weekend. The problem is that the media has spent almost two years saying how Trump is causing the rise of neo-nazis and white supremacists, when in reality it is more likely that the Trump wave was driven by the insanity that is going on in third wave feminism and intersectionalism. People are just sick and tired of being told they are oppressors when they are poor and have no power at all. The rise of white nationalism stems more from this than Trump. He just speaks and acts like they wish the world did so they jump in line and support him even though they don't know shit about his policies and political beliefs.

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8/16/17

Not sure if language barrier, but trying too hard with the fancy five dollar words - this reads awkwardly. On topic: Trump is as polarizing a figure as it gets. As such, you will rarely encounter a conservative who gets pushed off of supporting Trump due to something Trump has said / done. Likewise, you will find even fewer liberals / whatever other groups of people joining the Trump camp if there was an initially strong dislike for the man.

Hot take, I know.

8/17/17

I find that if you write something in a manner that is tiring (and perhaps awkward), you fend off trolls and others who can't be bothered reading through the content. But you're right, English is not my first language and I have to tackle 2 to 4 languages a day.. as such writing can become a bit awkward at times. Apologies for that.

Best Response
8/16/17

White nationalists and neo-Nazis are truly the scum of the earth. Their views are reprehensible and have no place in society. These racist inbreds are the only groups that I despise more than the misguided and mentally ill SJWs.

Trump mishandled this, that much is very obvious. That said - it's ironic the left always loves to stand on some racial moral high ground when they have done more to destroy race relations in this country in recent years than any of these fringe "alt-right" groups with their constant identity politics, selective outrage, support of the violent BLM movement, and labeling of every non-liberal as a Nazi sympathizer. Just as the BLM supporter who shot and killed 5 police officers should not typify a rational liberal, neither should the guy who ran over the poor woman with the car be associated with rational conservatives.

Anyways such is politics in America. An endless cycle of each side triggering each other...both sides are emotionally charged right now and inciting violence on one another. Left wing or right wing, they belong to the same bird...

8/17/17

The difference being a BLM supporter shot and killed 5 officers...which wasn't the purpose of the movement. The "unite the right" movement was entirely a white supremacist movement carrying torches, and the ensuing violence was directly related to their nazi chants and symbolism. Watching Trump walk away, refuse to condemn them and refuse to answer regarding what message that sends to supremacists, is an answer. Not to mention lying about which protest had permits (it wasn't the Nazis) and trying to paint the counterprotestors as violent, that's sympathy. It's a nod to the racial tensions he fanned throughout the campaign. It's hard for me, at least, to listen to people just say: "well, he just mishandled the situation." No, he was pressured into saying the right thing, hated it and doubled down on his true beliefs. Why are figures like Steve Bannon in the white house? Let's call it like it is.

8/17/17

Sure it's not the explicit purpose but when they are chanting "pigs in a blanket, fry em like bacon" at their marches and mocking the cops killed on duty on social media it gives you an idea of what they really want. More cops are killed by black people annually than the other way around. Should white people go protest gangs in the hood?

8/18/17

"More cops are killed by black people than the other way around."

That totally excuses killing (murdering?) as many black people as they want, until the two numbers are equal? Sound logic. Show me an actual accounting of that data. My instinct is that you feel that's true, but it probably isn't. Which is really an ideal example of showing racial bias in America.

8/17/17

You're willfully ignoring one of the main characteristics of BLM, which is that it has a strong anti-cop bias.

Please tell me how Trump has "fanned racial tensions" throughout his campaign.

Steve Bannon is in the White House because he turned around the Trump campaign with an emphasis on America-first economic policy focused on lost manufacturing which spoke directly to the Mid-West and is why Trump won the election. What exactly were you implying?

8/17/17

BLM is anti- corrupt cop. BLM is anti- the current justice system that disadvantages the poor and minorities. BLM does not advocate or condone violence against cops. It's like saying marching against the Israeli government's fucked up practices in the west bank means you're an anti-semite and advocate violence against Jewish people. It takes a high level of intellectual dishonesty to make that leap.

8/17/17
8/17/17

Anti police brutality, which is in fact a great stance. However, like many left leaning groups, they often push too far because they feel under represented. The Dallas police shootings is one simple example of BLM being the opposite side of the white nationalist coins

8/18/17

Well yes, a rally against cop brutality would be "anti-cop." Like a march against segregation is inherently "anti-racism" (?). Maybe they should have protested outside historically black communities and said: "stop being a black male in between 5'5" and 6'10", who leaves his house, ever, never wear a hood, never legally carry a weapon, never put your hands up and say 'don't shoot', but never not do that either." I see your point, we wouldn't want to offend those poor cops.

You could start with birtherism, not denouncing david duke, his choice commentary on mexico or immigrants. His muslim ban and views toward muslim communities. His view that justice curiel was incapable of presiding over his fraud case for having a "mexican heritage", though he was from Indiana. I'm not going to comb through all of his racist slights throughout the campaign but that stands out.

I was implying that a figure who ran a site dedicated to alt-right views that traded in bigotry and white supremacy, might not be the best symbol to put in the white house. That having someone who either holds or traded in those beliefs gives validation to people who actually have those beliefs, and in an entirely predictable occurrence...hate crimes, particularly against muslims are on the rise. Is that the sole reason? No, but symbols matter.

8/17/17

It's true, the theme behind BLM is honorable, while white supremacists are literally pushing for inequality. However, It really doesn't matter what the purpose of the movement was, they both incited violence.

How did he double down on his true beliefs? How do you even know what his real beliefs are? He's denounced white supremacists multiple times, has said racism is bad, etc. It really doesn't matter what he does, short of committing suicide on CNN live, whatever he does would not enough.

8/17/17

The purpose of the movement is extremely important. BLM does not condone violence or call for violence against anyone. During that same Dallas incident, a Jewish rabbi was the one leading that protest. White people walk alongside blacks, Hispanics, Asians etc. in the BLM protests. When one bad apple, who wasn't even part of the organization, kills a bunch of cops how can you blame BLM? The exclusive purpose of those people who march is to uphold and celebrate white supremacist beliefs at the detriment of other groups. You're comparing this to BLM protesting against police brutality and racial inequality in this nation. When we wonder why this nation is so divided, look no further than your post.

8/18/17

I think it does matter. To my knowledge the Catholic church doesn't support pedophelia, and we know that there are some disturbed predators in their midst, but I'm not going to say they incited child molestation by having youth groups.

8/17/17

The unite the right rally had a permit. The city tried to revoke it a week before the rally but they appealed in court, and won.

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8/16/17

I'm a hard-right, intolerant, close-minded conservative and even I have had it with Trump. That guy is just detestable. I genuinely can't imagine spending 5 minutes with him in a room and I feel sorry for his family (his kids and wife actually seem like decent people).

Just with regard to the latest situation, Trump isn't a racist or even sympathetic to white nationalism (his daughter and son-in-law are Jewish...); the primary problem is that Trump has a very bizarre personality defect. I don't want to be an internet psychologist, so I may get all kinds of terminology wrong, but he is easily manipulated through praise and criticism (sign of extreme narcissism?). The last 2 or 3 years has shown that he really doesn't like to criticize people who say nice things about him, and the white nationalists were saying nice things about him at the rally (which means nothing--you'd see praise-worthy stuff about Obama on Marxist websites, too--don't read too much into it--Obama was not a Marxist and Trump is not a Nazi).

The second problem is that there has been a great mis-use of political terminology the last year or so, which most people don't seem to understand. The true "alt-right" has been around for 2 decades or so, and they are white nationalists; however, like any political ideology, there are varying degrees of extremist ideology. Some true alt-righters just believe in white identity politics (the way the NAACP believes in black identity politics) while others are full blown racists and Jew-haters. Some of their political positions on things like immigration resemble a very conservative, but almost mainstream conservative, position, and in the last 2 years a populist movement backed by Trump has mis-labeled themselves (and has been mis-labeled by others) as "alt-right" due to an overlap in some political positions. Trump, Bannon, et al aren't actually "alt-right"--they are right-leaning populists, but not alt-righters. So with the mis-labeling comes the media's automatic connection of Trump and Nazi marchers. The mis-labeling has gotten so bad that Jewish, never-Trumper conservatives like Ben Shapiro are being absurdly labeled as "alt-right." And the reality is, most people have no idea what they're talking about. In fact, there are a lot of conservatives who believe they are "alt-right" but don't really realize what it is.

8/17/17

Seems like he did go too far on this one. White supremacists killed a white woman out of anger for going against their cause. Then Trump couldn't even genuinely give the country and the girl's friends and family condolences for the lost. The papers that are ran by these people support Trump and everyone called him a Nazi since the beginning, so then he indirectly decided to take the side of this camp, almost as if he's trying to confess that he is secretly a hood wearer.

Not only did he botch the death of an American due to domestic terrorism then winged his 'many sides' defense of the terrorists, he talked shit about the people on his side when they needed to clear their conscious. Right now, the Russian investigation is at a point where they are close to learning about how close Trump was to associating with a foreign government about undermining our electoral system.

He's becoming an easier target by the day. With both the Manufacturing and Strategic Policy counsels coming apart, it's clear business leaders lack faith in Trump's leadership and don't believe he'll be very effective in passing an economically friendly agenda. His administration has too many seats undimmed, seats keep moving around, there's way too much distraction in the White House. All we need is for Congress to stamp this president as a failure and he'd be out. He already has a pretty low chance of accomplishing anything in the first 365 days, I just wonder how long we can keep putting up with this child.

God help us for whatever's next. This has been a horrible president, even worse than Obama ;)

EDIT: the right thing to do would've been to call out Nazism first and foremost. Then talk about why he thought there were multiple sides to blame. The thin haired pink one is literally retarded and is incapable of doing so.

"Loser terrorists" & "bad hombres"

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8/18/17

.

8/17/17

Trump just rebuked AMZN for being successful: https://bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-16...
What a complete load of fucking shit. The Republican Party needs to primary and replace this guy.

8/17/17
lwmg:

Trump just rebuked AMZN for being successful: https://bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-16...
What a complete load of fucking shit. The Republican Party needs to primary and replace this guy.

[Stands and applauds]

We conservatives need to get this guy out of office.

8/17/17

Lmao Trump doesn't give a shit about AMZN reducing retail jobs, he is mad that the WaPo keeps writing negative stories about him and he is taking it out on AMZN cuz Bezos owns the Post.

8/17/17

Ding ding ding

8/17/17

I have no problem with denouncing both sides--commies and black supremacists who attack people for their opinions aren't deserving of praise either. But to say there were some "fine people" at the white supremacist rally is disturbing.

It is insane to see the differing reaction of the media to Charlottesville in comparison to last year when a BLM supporters were shooting cops in Texas and Louisiana. Obamas only response was to say "sure this is bad, but the police are racist. Both shootings and BLMs following celebration of the attacks on social media were swept under the rug within hours.

8/17/17

People need to stop getting their news from the MSM.

Trump has repeatedly denounced the Alt-right, many many times. How many times do you want him to say it? On Saturday he said both sides were to blame, the media had a field day. He said on Monday that the alt-right was to blame, the media had a field day. He said on Tuesday that both sides were to blame, the media had a field day. See a pattern here. The majority of people can see through this, the daily howling by the media is nauseating, turn it off.

He also denounced the Alt-left, and I'm glad he did (and btw the base has been calling for this for months, a lot of them called it his strongest move yet). Antifa are paid instigators. These white nationalists have been having rallies all the time, and no one cared or followed it. Why all the media attention now?

Honestly, I hope the left keeps pushing identity politics, its such a losing argument and people are tired of it. Does anyone honestly here think that Trump is a racist?

8/17/17
m8:

These white nationalists have been having rallies all the time, and no one cared or followed it. Why all the media attention now?

Exactly. Because the media knows people are extremely emotional right now. And they're trying to instigate as much as possible to get a reaction. Ignore the idiots and carry on.

8/17/17

He fully denounced what happened and condemned, in no unclear terms, all forms of bigotry/hate including white supremacy and nazism, by name, and an FBI investigation was promptly launched.

He could raise the dead and the left would be outraged.

8/17/17

Exactly, thank you.

8/17/17

Honestly, this fighting is long over due. Fucking Trump needs to just stay out of it and let the animals be animals, while instead focusing on the important matters for the rest of this civil country. The guy lacks focus and competence.

I think it's unfortunate he can't construct something to say that's longer than 140 characters or he might be able to develop a comprehensive and clear response to things.

"Loser terrorists" & "bad hombres"

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8/17/17

While I agree to an extent, the President has to weigh in on this. Did obama weigh in in all the cop killings? He got shit for it from the right, but felt compelled.

We have small scale civil war happening. This shit can accelerate. Congressmen were shot at by an angry leftist. Now you have an apparent right freak driving into people. This is how riots happen.

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8/17/17

I think he has to weigh in, but stating your position is not contributing a rational thought. He needs a writer to put something together and he just reads it. You can't tweet at this problem if you're going to say something. Obama actually improved in talking about Americans being Americans. His worst statements on race came early on in his presidency.

"Loser terrorists" & "bad hombres"

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8/17/17

Agree. And is this not early for Trump?

And did his first two statements not sound good? This free wheeling speech can well after the events, after constant press hounding, and what did he say? Both sides were to blame.

Trump should just stop all press conferences. Have a prepared statement that is posted on the White House. Have a YouTube channel where the press secretary speaks, but otherwise, no press.

MSM news is detrimental to this country. Sorry, but their bias is blatant and they are causing issues in this country.

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8/17/17

His "many sides" statement and failure to specifically condemn white nationalism was Saturday, the day of the rally, arrests, and clashes. Not sure what can be earlier than that.

"Loser terrorists" & "bad hombres"

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8/17/17

Go read the transcripts of his many statements. He condemned racists and violence numerous times. It's clear. He tweeted so as well.

Nothing Trump could say would matter. And both sides were and are to blame.

The press will feast on this, but whatever. Onward we go.

I'm still waiting for all the Russia evidence that Dems promised. Still waiting on Republicans to repeal and replace.

I won't hold my breath for either.

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8/17/17

Yes, but adding "many sides", which by the way was not part of the original text, was a sure fire way to create enough ambiguity in what he was saying. As well, Nazism negatively affects the whole world. His failure to outright condemn it immediately risks making America look like a complete joke in the world arena.

"Loser terrorists" & "bad hombres"

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8/17/17

Communism effects the whole world as well.

Make us look like a joke? To whom? Europe who was home to real Nazis. Who sat idly by as genocide happened in the Balkans. Who limit freedom of speech that they don't like?

Or china tha has a horrible human rights record. Or the ME where women and gays have no rights.

Where exactly are we a joke for saying both sides are to blame? Or saying anti fascists are bad hombres?

And I repeat. Trump denounced racists before and during this crisis.

Painting Trump as a bigot is as trash as the Russia thing. But it gets mileage so I see the strategy.

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8/17/17
TNA:

Communism effects the whole world as well.

Make us look like a joke? To whom? Europe who was home to real Nazis. Who sat idly by as genocide happened in the Balkans. Who limit freedom of speech that they don't like?

Or china tha has a horrible human rights record. Or the ME where women and gays have no rights.

Where exactly are we a joke for saying both sides are to blame? Or saying anti fascists are bad hombres?

And I repeat. Trump denounced racists before and during this crisis.

Painting Trump as a bigot is as trash as the Russia thing. But it gets mileage so I see the strategy.

Idk, but Al-Jazeera picked up the story before the rally and mocked America's harboring of Nazis.

"Loser terrorists" & "bad hombres"

"Typical candidates are those who attended a top-tier academic institution"
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8/17/17

I mean every country has Freaks. I don't think anyone should be to blame for a uber fringe group within its borders.

Do I consider all the ME to be Isis? No, even though they operate in their borders. Just saying.

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8/17/17

It was first reported that an antifa protester ran over their own group. Just saying

8/17/17
iBankedUp:

Yes, but adding "many sides", which by the way was not part of the original text, was a sure fire way to create enough ambiguity in what he was saying. As well, Nazism negatively affects the whole world. His failure to outright condemn it immediately risks making America look like a complete joke in the world arena.

well said

8/17/17
TNA:

Go read the transcripts of his many statements. He condemned racists and violence numerous times. It's clear. He tweeted so as well.

Nothing Trump could say would matter. And both sides were and are to blame.

The press will feast on this, but whatever. Onward we go.

I'm still waiting for all the Russia evidence that Dems promised. Still waiting on Republicans to repeal and replace.

I won't hold my breath for either.

+1

8/17/17

The transcripts of what trump said are online. On Aug 12th he denounced racists and violence and issues condolences for the young woman. On the. 14th he talked about the DOJ looking at hate drums and further denounced them. He did it again as well.

But everyone only cares when he puts blame on the left as well.

And ignore the BLM people. The culprits were the ANTIFA people who brought weapons and attack people who they label as Nazis (which included some of the people who attended the march).

And the alt right had to sue to have their right to March. The ACLI got behind them. They had a right to be there, no matter how repugnant the message. The counter protesters did not.

Additionally, attacking Nazis is one thing, but labeling everyone who supports Trump, wants to repeal Obamacare or doesn't support the radical social policies that the left is no pushing as "Nazis" isn't right.

These clowns caused violence in Berkeley over Milo. They shut down legit speakers who they consider having a non leftist message. These people are dangerous and someone needs to say it.

This isn't about BLM (which has a admirable stance, just a bad message) or the anti racists (once again, admirable, just bad execution).

Why are Dems focusing on statues and the .0001% who show up to these "alt right" marches. Do they think people in MI, PA, WV who don't have jobs, haven't seen wages increase, have seen healthcare prices increase, etc care about this shit?

You'd think the left would have seen this election and realized that mainstream wins the day. Instead they seem to be doubling down and moving far left. Midterms will be really interesting to see if they can come back strong.

Btw - NAFTA negotiatings are in process. Trumps moving the lower courts right in a dramatic way, Sessions keeps ploughing away with more ICE agents, Perry is pushing to make coal and nuclear favored energy sources and none of this is being reported on.

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8/17/17

No daily storm today? This was actually quite rational. Idk why everyone on this thread brought up BLM, the Nazis said multiple times "the antifa" in their descriptions of the events. And Trump's administration has been notably changing course on regulation. But major pieces of legislation doesn't look like it's going to pass. As far as NAFTA goes, it depends on what comes out of the talks, which I have more faith in Ross than in anything Trump is doing. The energy thing is taking strides on multiple sides, but it's a little silly, where renewables is expected to take major shape in the next decade. We should be training people to work in this field.

"Loser terrorists" & "bad hombres"

"Typical candidates are those who attended a top-tier academic institution"
-Most job applications

8/17/17

Har har har.

Congress is useless. They were gimps the last 6 years with obama and are gimps now. But Trumps slowly chipping away, through EO and cabinet appointees. No one covers this shit though.

And while I'm a Yankee at heart, I don't get ripping down statues. The history of some of these southern generals was truly part of this country. It isn't like ALL they did was the civil war. Furthermore, lot of northern generals would have been brought up for human rights violations.

Gen. Sherman march to the sea? Hague would have tried his ass. Washington wrote a book on managing slaves that was horrible. So if we start applying current morals to past times we are in for an wild ride.

And strategically, these statues are all in the south. Do you think this makes those states more or less right leaning? This basically solidifies an us vs them.

And does this gain any votes for the Dems in Michigan? Or coal town WV? Doubtful. But it makes college kids feel happy and NYC liberals love it. Cool, but that formula allowed a rapist to get elected. Sure as hell won't beat Pence.

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8/17/17
TNA:

Har har har.

Congress is useless. They were gimps the last 6 years with obama and are gimps now. But Trumps slowly chipping away, through EO and cabinet appointees. No one covers this shit though.

And while I'm a Yankee at heart, I don't get ripping down statues. The history of some of these southern generals was truly part of this country. It isn't like ALL they did was the civil war. Furthermore, lot of northern generals would have been brought up for human rights violations.

Gen. Sherman march to the sea? Hague would have tried his ass. Washington wrote a book on managing slaves that was horrible. So if we start applying current morals to past times we are in for an wild ride.

And strategically, these statues are all in the south. Do you think this makes those states more or less right leaning? This basically solidifies an us vs them.

And does this gain any votes for the Dems in Michigan? Or coal town WV? Doubtful. But it makes college kids feel happy and NYC liberals love it. Cool, but that formula allowed a rapist to get elected. Sure as hell won't beat Pence.

Huh?

"Loser terrorists" & "bad hombres"

"Typical candidates are those who attended a top-tier academic institution"
-Most job applications

8/17/17

He is doing a good job of inspiring the majority of America's population of left-leaning urban dwellers who were too lazy or didn't like Hillary enough to vote in November 2016 to show up in droves in November 2020...if he makes it that far.

8/17/17

They all showed up to vote. She didn't get minority turn out of traditional democrats (labor). Dems are moving further left as the republicans redistrict.

Ignore the presidency. Republicans control almost all levels of government across this country. How is the Dem message going to turn that? Where is their jobs platform? Where is their plan to Fix the healthcare they voted for? Where is their plan to box in NK?

All I see and hear is pulling down statues and transgender rights.

Edit - Dems are deff motivating certain elecmentw in their base. I see Cali and NYC going even more for a Dem candidate. Unfortunately, the popular vote still doesn't win the election.

FL is most likely red. Ohio isn't moving on these fringe issues. Michigan has shown a pro labor Republican can win the day and I don't see Dems trying to reach out to white, blue collar workers. PA is blue unless you get minority turn out in Philly high enough - again, that's not gonna happen with the issues Dems push.

What, they gain another million in cali and bitch about the popular vote? I mean how are these issues swinging red states back blue? Trump won those states because he talked jobs. Dems aren't talking jobs.

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8/17/17

From his history (lawsuits etc.), his comments during the campaign, and his comments now - defending confederate statues even today as we speak - it is pretty clear Donald Trump is a racist. You compare Thomas Jefferson, the author of the declaration of independence, to Jefferson Davis, a guy known pretty much exclusively for being the civilian leader of a revolt against the United States government. Yea, they both owned slaves, one guy has statues for his positive contributions to our nation, why the fuck are there Robert E Lee statues in Baltimore? Why the fuck do inner city kids have to go to schools named after Robert E Lee? There are three times more statues of confederate leaders in the capitol than there are of black civil rights leaders (MLK, Tubman, etc.), these people were traitors but we want to act like they made some positive contribution to this nation in order to satisfy the status quo in this country. Mississippi still has the confederate flag as part of its state flag to this day. Then we have a subset of people that want to blame our racial divide on Obama & BLM, what a joke.

8/17/17

Trump renounced these racists like David Duke yestreday, on Monday, on Saturday, and also 16 years ago:

"Although I am totally comfortable with the people in the New York Independence Party, I leave the Reform Party to David Duke, Pat Buchanan and Lenora Fulani. That is not company I wish to keep."
http://nytimes.com/2000/02/19/opinion/what-i-s...
But sure, twist his words and assume his intentions (of which you or I know nothing). The guy is white. Reality is, he's no more racist than every other non-minority president, congressmen and governor we've had. These people don't give a fuck about the well-being or the real prejudices minorities face. They create a culture of victimhood to keep them down.

8/17/17

70s- Trump was sued for discriminatory rental practices

80s - A former Trump employee accused Trump of racial discrimination - saying when he and Ivanka came to Trump's casino, black employees were ordered off the floor

Late 80s - Central park five case where four black teens and one hispanic was accused of raping a woman, Trump took out an ad calling to bring back the death penalty. The teens were convicted and spent 13 years in prison before a confession by another guy and DNA evidence exonerated them, they were awarded a $41 million settlement. In a later interview Trump said he still believes they are guilty

90s - A book by John O'Donnell, former president of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City, quoted Trump's criticism of a black accountant: "Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. ... I think that the guy is lazy. And it's probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It's not anything they can control." Trump at first denied the remarks, but later said in a 1997 Playboy interview that "the stuff O'Donnell wrote about me is probably true."

I don't feel like continuing, keep being an apologist for him though

8/17/17
BobTheBaker:

70s- Trump was sued for discriminatory rental practices

80s - A former Trump employee accused Trump of racial discrimination - saying when he and Ivanka came to Trump's casino, black employees were ordered off the floor

In fairness, every large company is constantly engaged in some form of litigation, which often has to do with some form of discrimination claim. We are in the process of buying out our partner in a hotel, and just this morning, in reviewing due diligence, I read our list of pending lawsuits. Included in these pending suits are numerous racial discrimination claims (that basically read as preposterous--an Hispanic cleaning lady saying she's being spoken to differently because she's Hispanic). That's just the nature of business--you are always engaged in a lawsuit. (My father was accused by a black employee of racial discrimination in the 1980's, and other black employees defended my father, telling the review board that my dad was a jerk to everyone, lol--true story.)

What actually surprises me is how few claims of racial discrimination Trump's organization has had against it (at least publicly known).

8/17/17

What about the central park five? What about a respected former employee alleging him of racism and him ADMITTING it as "basically true". I believe his father was a virulent racist as well, we are often products of our upbringing. In any case, I believe he is unfit for office.

8/17/17
BobTheBaker:

What about the central park five? What about a respected former employee alleging him of racism and him ADMITTING it as "basically true". I believe his father was a virulent racist as well, we are often products of our upbringing. In any case, I believe he is unfit for office.

He's definitely un-fit for office, I have come to believe that at this juncture. But to be completely honest, I'd bet every president from Washington to GW Bush has said some horribly racist things in private.

8/17/17

That's not really a spurious claim, racism was the law of the land through the 70s... Anyway, Trump has hired Bannon in his white house. He has hired an attorney general that was rejected from being a federal judge over claims of racism, said attorney general is dismantling Obama era civil rights inquiries (the same ones that led to discoveries of vast abuses of power and discrimination in police departments from Baltimore to San Francisco). We all say racist things sometimes, doesn't make us racist. I believe Trump is a racist, and it is displayed in his words and actions.

8/18/17

I don't think he is racist, but I really wish he was at this point. I do believe that you are a racist, you hate white people man (specifically white men) just because the media tells you to. Please just admit it.

Remember when you tried to say that minority women dating white women and their families liking it was an act of white supremacy?

8/17/17

Honestly I feel a lot of these new emerging far-right organizations are a backlash against the left-wing identity politics the left has promoted all these years. I am not defending the far-right. I'm Asian, and I'll need to flee if the Richard Spencer crowd ever get hold of real power. However, you have to wonder how many of those people in the rally became that way due to the repeated identity politics attack from the left.
This reminds me only time someone outright judged me based on race was when I discussed politics with a college liberal. This person found out I was a libertarian, and he more or less said that I was brainwashed and needed to be "rescued" by the enlightened left. WTF was my reaction.

8/17/17

Of course it is backlash. Many white people feel they are losing their preferred status in this country and are mad about it. That's not surprising. A majority of Republicans believe discrimination against white ppl is a bigger issue than discrimination against minorities. What I don't get is why that reaction should be the left's fault.

8/17/17

Lol I totally get what you're getting at with the left. Some of them are so self-absorbed it's unbelievable. It really makes you wonder what exactly they want out of people at this point. Bad reactions towards them don't even come off unexpected anymore.

I'm Asian too and I have had many, many instances of open hostility towards my thoughts on culture and race by other leftists who want to preach about equality. These are also the same people who, to my face, called me Chinese and assumed I knew a lot about Chinese culture and identity because I was labeled as "Chinese" in their minds.

For the record I am not Chinese and it's abundantly obvious I'm not.

EDIT: I also think the biggest irony though was the fact that the same people who kept calling me Chinese were also Asian. It gets a bit annoying when people bitch about whites being racist when literally some Chinese-American bitch called me Chinese even though I'm not.

8/17/17
Formaldehyde41:

Honestly I feel a lot of these new emerging far-right organizations are a backlash against the left-wing identity politics the left has promoted all these years. I am not defending the far-right. I'm Asian, and I'll need to flee if the Richard Spencer crowd ever get hold of real power. However, you have to wonder how many of those people in the rally became that way due to the repeated identity politics attack from the left.
This reminds me only time someone outright judged me based on race was when I discussed politics with a college liberal. This person found out I was a libertarian, and he more or less said that I was brainwashed and needed to be "rescued" by the enlightened left. WTF was my reaction.

I talk about Ben Shapiro a lot because I feel like he's the last intellectually honest commentator/journalist in America. Shapiro detests the alt-right and calls them "evil" and calls all racism evil, but he points out that white identity politics is a direct response to Latino, Asian, black, women, et al identity politics that more or less makes broad accusations of white privilege in an era where white men are starting to fall behind. How do people think it feels for a poor white person with drug addicted friends to be called "privileged" by Ivy League students and professors?

8/17/17

leave asians out of this

8/17/17

Some Asians engage in identity behaviors, too. There are Asian organizations, Asians vote overwhelmingly for one party. In America, pretty much all groups engage in identity behaviors. My larger point is that the natural response to identity politics is identity politics. And all identity politics are evil.

8/17/17

I am sorry but white privilege exists, period. Others pointing it out leading to backlash is what it is but that doesn't make it any less real. What is unfortunate is that instead of examining the perspective of these minority groups people are lashing out against them, it's truly unfortunate.

8/17/17
BobTheBaker:

I am sorry but white privilege exists, period. Others pointing it out leading to backlash is what it is but that doesn't make it any less real. What is unfortunate is that instead of examining the perspective of these minority groups people are lashing out against them, it's truly unfortunate.

White privilege may or may not exist, but if it exists it apparently doesn't apply to the 10 million white households on some welfare program. The point is, all people are differently situated--you can't paint a broad brush and label everyone as part of a privileged group. I spent my spring break of 2004 in Slade, Kentucky among the most deeply impoverished people I have ever witnessed--nearly all of the people there were white. My now-ex-gf (white) was so poor growing up that she went hungry for a decent portion of her childhood and still has a bizarre relationship with food as a result. Everyone has different life circumstances.

8/19/17

Slade is a shithole but it's a pretty area! The natural bridge is cool :D.

8/17/17

1) what does this have to do with the discussion?

2) ANTIFA members are largely white.

3) only one group had a permit and a right to March. Whether you like their message or not, they have a right to say it.

4) Trump denounced racists repeatedly. You trying to infer his feelings mean nothing. His words, on record, were against the racists.

5) leftist violence is an issue just like right wing violence.

6) crying about privilege doesn't make your life better and it makes people you are attacking tune out.

7) if Dems think white privilege is an issue that will win then Michigan, PA, Wisconsin, Ohio, they are in for a rude awakening.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

8/17/17

1.) we are discussing the backlash created by identity politics (which I find hilarious cuz republicans have been playing white christian identity politics to get poor white people to vote for them when they're better off voting for dems as far as policy).

2.) OK

3.) Irrelevant: President Trump twice claimed that counterprotesters lacked a permit to demonstrate in Charlottesville. But they did have permits for rallies on Saturday -- and they did not need one to go into or gather near Emancipation Park, where white nationalists scheduled their rally. No permits were needed to march on the U-Va. campus on Friday night.

4.) Trump has flip-flopped on the issue, and said "not all those people were white supremacists" (the people that were part of a group chanting Jews will not replace us).

5.) This is just false, since 9/11 right-wing domestic terrorism has taken 106 lives compared to 119 by islamic terrorism, there isn't even a spot for left-wing terrorism: http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/20...
6.) I don't cry. I responded. Trust I know how to go about my business in the real world. My father always told me to hold myself to a higher standard because of the state of being black in this country, I heed that advice to this day and likely will for the rest of my life.

7.) I'm not a politician thus I am not concerned with winning elections.

8/17/17

Tell the folks in middle america who cant find a job that white privilege exists. If that's the Democrat platform, they're going to lose again in 2020.

8/17/17
m8:

Tell the folks in middle america who cant find a job that white privilege exists. If that's the Democrat platform, they're going to lose again in 2020.

I think this is kind of the point. Let's just say white privilege does exist--at the very least, a decent chunk of the white population doesn't benefit substantially from it. They don't appreciate being told about their privilege by college students and other well-off people.

8/17/17

Just because it isn't politically advantageous to state that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Period. I am not a politician so I will leave the 2020 strategics to the politicians.

8/17/17

Bingo. If Dems thing this is a platform to win with they will be crushed forever.

Go back to being pro labor and unions. Stop this radical left shit and they can win rust belt states again.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
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8/17/17

During my summer in college, I worked in a manufacturing company. The blacks on the factory floor have plenty of racist attitudes against others. They said working overtime or giving children a better education was "acting white". Ironically, they then complained about not getting paid enough or their kids could get high paying jobs.

8/17/17

Cool anecdote.

8/17/17

As a Trump supporter I would say yes, he went too far. I think he is winking at these alt-right people in a way that is very inappropriate to say the least. I have been really rethinking my support of him over the last few days.

8/17/17

What bothers me the most about this whole thing is Trump was given a political lay up and was not competent or disciplined enough to just say what 99% of the world wanted to hear and be done with the situation.

8/17/17

You mean 99% of the echo chamber that you live in. A LARGE swatch of America had absolutely no problem with what President Trump stated, and thought that it was well reasoned and sensible.

8/18/17

no probably about 99% of the world, business leaders and and political leaders around the world including Iran did not want to hear that. I'm sure if you do the math 1% or less or worldwide people support nazi principles. Sounds like you need to find a smarter "echo chamber" to hangout in.

8/17/17

As someone who voted for Trump for reasons outside of popular opinion, I think he's doing the right things but may not necessarily be saying "the right" things. But does that bother me? No. Because it's better to hear straight truth than getting a sugar coated, watered down, politically correct version that won't get anyone to pay attention to the Federal Government. His ability to get people to start paying more attention to the government is being VASTLY underestimated right now. Whether you love him or hate him, it's happening on an unprecedented level. Individuals who may have never cared previously, care now and it's hopefully turning around the apathetic sentiment of the American people.

I feel if you can manage to piss off the media-industrial-complex to the point where they are airing nothing but negative/targeted material 24/7, you're doing something right. While many feel emotionally triggered due to where they are getting their information from in relation to their relative view of how they THINK the * real world* works, I think there a lot of working class individuals (military/law enforcement included) that are appreciative and many others too. It's a change that's needed to happen ( I believe Bernie's and Trump's supporter base, in one form or another, were a manifestation of the growing unrest about how our country has been running).

Many choose to criticize him for these first few months in office but I would like to remind you all that he's not the champion of the Republican party. He's not fulfilling party goals. They are staying silent and letting the Democrats talk for them. Neither side likes Trump and the pro-American stance he has taken. God forbid.

Right now our country is a welfare system for not only the very poor, but the very rich. The politicians do just enough to keep the population fat, stupid, and occupied while they skim off the top what they can. Let the outsourcing and monopolies continue, let small businesses get easily bought out because they can't compete or are bankrupted due to stupid litigation brought up on by more financially stronger firms.

And the only reason I view all of this as a substantial problem is because the Chinese government is united as a strategic body that is actively seeking to do everything they can to become THE dominant power while the United States has become lazy and complacent. Sure we can keep fighting in favor of the Petro Dollar and selling our country out for personal gain but what's the plan afterwards? This won't last forever.

So hopefully with this renewed focus on improving America and empowering Americans, we can see a brighter future.

And just turn off Social Media/TV, it's unbearable no matter what part of the spectrum you support and nothing is to be gained but emotional kneejerk reactions and outbursts.

If you find yourself feeling lost, go climb a mountain.

8/17/17

This post is all drivel that works under the assumption that Trump's suggested policies will ACTUALLY help America or that he knows wtf he is doing... I don't agree with him from a policy standpoint and don't think he knows wtf he is doing. After all, he was ready to push whatever healthcare bill came across his desk for the sake of a "win". He is the worst form of politician, a serial liar and an opportunist with no real steadfast principles, which is amazing because he'd never been in politics.

8/17/17

Thanks for your opinion Bob.

If you find yourself feeling lost, go climb a mountain.

8/17/17

Trump is exactly the president that America now needs, if he were not constantly hindered, he could have done much for the country.

8/17/17

Hindered by the cabinet of fucking idiots he put together himself? The Republican majority in Congress? In any event he's probably too busy golfing, reading Tweets about himself and watching Fox News that he just doesn't have time to make America great again.

8/17/17

I did not support Trump during the primaries. I did not support him in the general election (supported the Libertarian ticket). I didn't support him during much of his presidency. I don't believe in his economic protectionist policies or in his stance on immigration restriction. But after the events at Charlottesville, I have immense respect for him.

The left has gone off the fucking deep end since the election.

Elements of the federal government and security agencies have violated federal privacy and espionage laws repeatedly by leaking classified information and de-masking his associates in an attempt to destroy his legitimacy. The media has pushed blatantly false stories, narratives and conspiracy theories about pee-pee parties in attempt to destroy him politically. States are in open rebellion against federal law with regard to immigration and drug policy. District courts are blatantly disregarding case law and the constitution in reaching their conclusions. Congress has passed unconstitutional laws that directly impede on the president's constitutional authority, limiting his and his team's ability to conduct foreign policy.

The supreme court has historically acted as a check on executive authority, but for the first time in this nation's history, it will act as the last defender of the president's constitutional authority.

The left openly endorses radical left-wing militant groups that are responsible for billions of dollars in property damage, the death of multiple police officers and an attack on Republican congressmen. They openly violate law while the police are told to stand down by their politically driven, left-wing mayors, which ultimately resulted in the tragic death of one activist in Charlottesville. Many more were injured as the police allowed effectively a free-for-all between spiked bat and flame-thrower wielding radicals.

We are at a point now where the left openly states that only certain groups are entitled to first amendment rights and that other groups will be violently assaulted and shut down for holding contrarian views. "Fascists," they say, don't have first amendment rights. "Hate speech" isn't protected they say. The supreme court has made it clear that "hate speech" doesn't exist - it has no objective meaning in the law and everyone right of Bill Maher is a "fascist" according to the left (though Bill Maher is increasingly taking heat on the left as well).

The left is pushing this country towards a post-legal society with vandals running around destroying property, monuments and punching people in the face while the police just stand by. We're literally moving towards anarchy.

The president's decision to stand up and say the truth, when it would have been so fucking easy to cower, was inspiring. He was simply factually correct in his statements:

  • We cannot destroy the past simply because we're uncomfortable with it
  • There was violence on both sides
  • White nationalists are despicable but so too are militant communist thugs
  • The police have a duty to protect and to serve, including those that they may find despicable

Seriously, he wasn't really my president until he stood up and spoke the truth when it would have been so easy to lie and to praise the anarchy of the left.

"Elections are a futures market for stolen property"

8/17/17

I will address what you said after your supreme court line, the shit you posted before that is irrelevant and I don't care to go down that rabbit hole.

The left is the issue here right? Not the neo-Nazis, not the Nazi who attacked people using his vehicle, you even somehow blame the left for that incident, wow. The left supports BLM, I didn't realize BLM called for cop killings in their mission statement, never mind that the guy who commited that atrocity in Dallas had no connection to BLM. Then you go on to discuss the congress attack, dude was a lone wolf but yea, it is the lefts support of "militant groups" that caused that attack. You talk about property damage as if every riot is at the behest of an organized group, and go on to say the left supports these riots, amazing. Let's talk about human casualties, right-wing terrorism has killed 109 people since 2001, how many lives do you think left wingers have taken? Where is your screed denouncing the right for motivating such lunatics? Nonexistent.

"We cannot destroy the past simply because we're uncomfortable with it"

Taking down statues does not "destroy the past".. this is a false equivalence and it is bullshit.

"There was violence on both sides"

Agreed, but only one side (109 is now 110) took a life

"White nationalists are despicable but so too are militant communist thugs"

There is no equivalence between Nazis who want to eradicate minorities and groups like antifa. They shouldn't even be in the same sentence.

"The police have a duty to protect and to serve, including those that they may find despicable"

Agreed. Ironically, BLM is for police reform that would foster more trust between the police and the community but you characterize them as a violent militant group.

8/17/17

It's simple really, because you're evidently too thick headed to get past your feelz...

No matter how despicable and vile their rhetoric, which side had a LEGAL permit, at the order of a Federal judge, to protest? Which side did not have a legal permit, and ILLEGALLY assembled to counter-protest while also brandishing a plethora of weapons?

Unfortunately for some people laws still do matter, and as Esuric stated, the 1st amendment and Supreme Court precedents don't give a shit about your feelz. If you don't like the laws as they currently sit then work to get them changed, but good luck with that.

8/17/17

"President Trump twice claimed that counterprotesters lacked a permit to demonstrate in Charlottesville. But they did have permits for rallies on Saturday -- and they did not need one to go into or gather near Emancipation Park, where white nationalists scheduled their rally. No permits were needed to march on the U-Va. campus on Friday night."

Try again, there was no illegal assembly. Both sides had weapons (or do you not think a lit torch can be a weapon), only one side took a life. Talking about "feelz" when you don't even have your fucking facts straight, get the fuck out of here.

8/17/17

"Charlottesville spokeswoman Miriam I. Dickler told Moyer that only one permit was issued for Emancipation Park -- the one received by white nationalists staging the "Unite the Right" rally."

Nice try, but try again. The counter-protester permits were issued for areas blocks away from Emancipation Park.

A large organized demonstration filled with Antifa and Communists absolutely needed a permit to counter-protest in Emancipation Park, and this will come through in court. I wonder what you would have said if the Unite the Right rally in Emancipation Park took place without a permit...would you still be backing their right to gather in a public park? Would you be ranting about how they didn't need a permit? I'm sure you would huh...

8/17/17

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements...
Dude, shut the fuck up. You've no idea what you're talking about and you're pushing bullshit.

8/17/17

How about you shut the fuck up retard. You're so stupid and constantly shit up these boards with your nonsense.

As I stated you halfwit, those morons had permits, but not for the location of Emancipation Park. Their permits were for locations one to two blocks away. All of the initial clashes took place in or directly surrounding Emancipation Park, and the Communists and Antifa should have been arrested on the spot. That is the LAW, deal with it and your butthurt feelz.

8/17/17

So your complaint is that the "communists and antifa" have protested 1 block away from their official permit? Jesus. Makes you wanna kill, right?

8/17/17

You're German, worry about your own country, which has plenty of problems, as you clearly have no understanding of American dynamics, laws and the current political climate.

8/17/17

I can worry about whatever I want to and can express my views and opinion. It's in the constitution which also applies for non-US nationals. Read the LAW or get it changed.

BTW. stop using German nazi slogans like "blood and soil", stop using the swastika and don't refer to Hitler. They treated you Americans like cannon fodder in the Normandy, the soldiers even felt pity for you poor Americans.

8/17/17

"Charlottesville spokeswoman Miriam Dickler told Moyer that only one permit was issued for Emancipation Park - the one received by white nationalists staging a "Unite the Right" rally. However, counterprotesters did not need permits to protest that rally, she said.

"Please bear in mind that people do not need a permit to enter a public park, even when another event is scheduled to take place there, nor are they required to have one to be on streets or sidewalks adjacent to or outside the park," Dickler said in an email."

That's from the spokeswoman of the town. Keep doubling and tripling down on your stupidity. Idk how much more clear I can make this. What business school admitted you, holy shit.

8/17/17

It was an organized counter-protest, not a few people strolling around the park. I hope you're willing to eat your words after the city of Charlotesville is sued and loses. It's amazing how much people like you love your own bullshit.

And again, would you be defending the right of the white nationalists to protest in the park if they did not have a permit? Yes or no?

8/17/17

Dude, I've quoted you 2 sources and the spokeswoman for the city. You've provided nothing but your fucking "hot takes" and speculation (city getting sued and losing), accusing me of "feelz" when you don't have your facts straight. Fuck off.

8/17/17

You triggered bro? Calm down, it sounds like you should be at an Antifa rally right now.

Just because "the spokeswoman" said so doesn't make it true. But please, continue with your bogus appeals to authority.

This exact matter is going to play out in court. If my argument loses based upon the legal right to counter-protest argument I will say "I was wrong", although I doubt that will be the case. I hope you're sane enough to say the same if your argument loses in court, though with you I'm sure you would start to pick at another strawman.

Btw, you still didn't answer my question. "And again, would you be defending the right of the white nationalists to protest in the park if they did not have a permit? Yes or no?"

I'm waiting...

8/17/17

You should visit stormfront.org. You'll like it there.

8/17/17

U mad